Just learned what A "Vocalizer" does and am horrified!

[waveform]

So I was at the music store today and the clerk informed me about the DigiTech Vocalizer. He indicated it was a device for changing the intonation of your voice to be in tune with your guitar. I was shocked and horrified all at the same time. I have spent a lot of time getting in tune and have had such a rewarding experience with it. The fact that someone can make or would make a device to circumvent this seems so lazy. Its like breaking up with your girlfriend via a text message. This is such an interesting community, we all are acoustic at some level. But at what point do we get rid of, or use mind you, digital effects? I think I would use some things, but stuff like that is crazy. I guess you could send the thing off into 3rds or 5ths and harmonize with you and have a very subtle blend. I have heard artists use that but it sounds really funny to my ears, not the ha ha funny. Anyone liking these systems?

[HHP]

You're such an elitist. Why should performing be limited to people with talent. Everybody has a right to be a star without all that tedious practicing and learning.

[slewis]

Simple and basic "effects" (like reverb and delay) are one thing; auto-harmonizing is another (not high on my list), and some gizmo that literally fixes the flaws in your voice is an entirely other (unacceptable) thing. Absolutely no offense intended to anyone, but I'd walk out on, or would never go see in the first place, any performer if I knew they were using some kind of vocal pitch-correction thing. It should insult any listener, in fact. When they invent a machine that makes your fingers play the right notes on the fretboard, are we going to sit and happily listen to THEM TOO? I sure wont be. We gotta draw the line somewhere on where effects end and talent begins.

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by waveform

So I was at the music store today and the clerk informed me about the DigiTech Vocalizer. He indicated it was a device for changing the intonation of your voice to be in tune with your guitar. I was shocked and horrified all at the same time. I have spent a lot of time getting in tune and have had such a rewarding experience with it. The fact that someone can make or would make a device to circumvent this seems so lazy. Its like breaking up with your girlfriend via a text message. This is such an interesting community, we all are acoustic at some level. But at what point do we get rid of, or use mind you, digital effects? I think I would use some things, but stuff like that is crazy. I guess you could send the thing off into 3rds or 5ths and harmonize with you and have a very subtle blend. I have heard artists use that but it sounds really funny to my ears, not the ha ha funny. Anyone liking these systems?

I'm not sure I understand what product you're talking about. Is it this:

http://www.digitech.com/en-US/products/live-3

?

Of so, I think your store clerk misrepresented its purpose to you (or I should say purposes).

Louis

[muscmp]

to each their own! your trash is someone else's treasure!

the people who use these love them and feel they help create their sound. others prefer not to use them.

play music!

[mr. beaumont]

just learned that?

Yikes...wait till you find out about interleague play.

[Warren Gilmour]

It's more or less a toupee in that's its used to cover up something that isn't there. Rather than lack of hair this device covers up lack of vocal ability.
Flip on any top 40 radio station and you'll hear enough auto tuned vocals to make you wanna tear your hair out

[lschwart]

Again, what device are we actually talking about? I don't know of any device called a "Digitech Vocalizer," and the Digitech Vocalist Live pedals, which do exist, are not devices "for changing the intonation of your voice to be in tune with your guitar." Those pedals, like a lot of effects units for voice, have a pitch correction control that can be adjusted from very light to so heavy that it becomes more an effect than a correction device. And it can be entirely shut off, too. The main purpose of a pedal like the Vocalist Live 3, however, is to add harmonies to a solo lead vocal. It "listens" to the guitar, figures out the key, and when you want to you step on a button and when you sing you get harmony lines that shadow your vocal. It can effective for a solo performer when it's used artfully. And like anything else it can sound cheezy when it's not.

And FWIW, the pitch correction function on a pedal like that, while it might be helpful for some singers who go a little "pitchy" in spots, which can be a problem I suppose when you're using a harmony effect, it's not going to make a singer who sings badly off pitch all the time sound good. It's not magic.

Louis

[Captain Jim]

I do use a vocal harmonizer, the TC Helicon Gxt. It gives up to 3 part harmony in 3rd or 5ths above and below. The correction on the model I have is a function of the software listening to the guitar chords, and making the harmonies "correct" as for a minor vs a major. Sing badly, and it sounds bad. Mix in too much harmony and it sounds odd. Mix in a bit of harmony, keep it subtle, and it adds another dimension to your performance.

Other musicians understand what the pedal is doing, many are fascinated by it. Most of the time, the crowd just enjoys the music, often commenting on the overall sound. Most musicians have no problem with a singer doing their own harmony tracks on a recording... this is pretty much the same, just easy to use live (I don't care for backing tracks for myself). Like any effect, over-use it and it gets old. Add some harmony on the chorus and it sounds richer.

Some guitar players use effect pedals on their guitar to modify the tone. Similar situation for the vocals, with a harmonizer. It won't make a bad singer sound good... just like pedals won't make a crappy guitar player sound good.

If you play in public, you have made adjustments to the PA or amp to get the sound/tone you prefer. This isn't like auto-tune that many of the current pop stars over-use.

I played in bands for a lot of years. Playing solo, I missed the vocal harmonies; this gives you the option. Don't write it off as a gimmick if you haven't used one.

Best wishes,
Captain Jim

[Laughingboy68]

+1 to Captain Jim's comments.

I use the same pedal (the Harmony G-XT). It doesn't make up for a lack of ability, but rather allows a single musician to add vocal harmonies to their lines that are determined by what you play on guitar. Hear someone do it well and it is a nice addition and adds variety to a show.

I play four sets a night as a solo guitar player/singer/noise maker. Some songs have just guitar and vocal, some have a bit of harmony, some have looped percussion, basslines and background vocals. If you think it's easier to juggle all of these things or that it covers up a lack of talent, you should try it. It's all harder than it looks. You have to be aware of the voicing that you're playing or the harmonizer starts guessing. Sing out of tune and so are your virtual background singers. Overuse it and it sounds cheesy. Personally, I don't use the autotune feature as I find it sounds unnatural at best. Like any equipment we use, these things are tools; they're best used carefully and with intent. New technology is often viewed with scepticism. Just as electric guitars, synthesizers, saxophones and fretted instruments were once viewed as cheating or novelty instruments, I think an informed creative view of any new device will demonstrate it's usefulness and value to artistic expression.

My $.02

Mike

[Alter]

I do use a vocal harmonizer, the TC Helicon Gxt. It gives up to 3 part harmony in 3rd or 5ths above and below. The correction on the model I have is a function of the software listening to the guitar chords, and making the harmonies "correct" as for a minor vs a major. Sing badly, and it sounds bad. Mix in too much harmony and it sounds odd. Mix in a bit of harmony, keep it subtle, and it adds another dimension to your performance.

i agree. it can be really impressive when you see a singer doing that live (kind of free backing vocalists .. with effects added). first time i tried it, just singing and holding a single note at the singers mic, playing chords on his guitar, you hear harmonies changing, really impressive

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

just learned that?

Yikes...wait till you find out about interleague play.

HI Jeff...

Have you seen this one? (only 1:09) - CLiCK

Seemed appropriate to the the discussion...

[steveyam]

Originally Posted by HHP

You're such an elitist. Why should performing be limited to people with talent. Everybody has a right to be a star without all that tedious practicing and learning.

Just great. I love it, made my day! That's an English sense of humour going on there..

[waveform]

I don't think I am an elitist. Talent is just a pursued interest (thank you Bob Ross). I'm not trying to trash anyone. The reason I just found out about this thing was I was busy practicing. What is interleague play anyway? Yes it was basically like that thing, I think a slightly older model. Stuff like reverb makes sense, its a more natural representation of something. Thats great if people use stuff like the Vocalizer and love it. I just trust my ears, I have heard this used before and it doesn't sound right to me. The right to being a "star" is being really good, I don't things like this make you better. Captain Jim has a good point about artists doing their own backing tracks on lp's. I just can't see how you can replace a human with this thing. I have heard a device like this before, sounds like an effect much more then another person singing. I think it is really good to question the development of technology, what it does, what it is used for. Just cause its the latest and greatest a lot of folks seem to jump right on it. My favorite thing (well many other actually) about acoustic music you just need a voice, guitar, drums or what ever other instruments don't plug into anything. The best part about that is thats the way it has been for a million years, and I see no difference between us and them (figuratively speaking). The last video is hysterical! I guess thats whats happening inside that little DigiTech.

[jseth]

I understand WHY some people use a "pitch-correction" unit... after all, I've HEARD them try to sing! I would never use one; I've worked long and hard to be able to sing on pitch... and it definitely seems like cheating, to me, for someone to just "bleat and bellow", yet come out sounding lovely!!!

I also know, from several "insider" sources, that the usage of that type of gear is rampant among many music-industry "stars", and has been for a decade or two...

Not to be confused with the units that allow one voice to be a 3 part harmony sound, which I have heard and can sound okay, but gets cheese-y REALLY quickly, ESPECIALLY live... slightly faster than programmed drum and rhythm parts, to my ears...

You know, you can use one fo those gizmos if you want... but, sooner or later, SOMEONE is going to hear you sing WITHOUT IT!!!!