Humidity Issues with Martin Acoustic Guitar

[Dbone]

Originally Posted by telephototyler

Hello,

I am the proud owner of a Martin OMJM, but have been experiencing some frustrating issues that are diminishing the joy of guitar ownership.

I recently had the instrument set up by a professional luthier as it did not feel as good as it used to. He informed me that the guitar was affected by excess humidity. So, before bringing it home I purchased a dehumidifier and ensured that my basement studio was ideal for the instrument.

I then picked up the guitar and, in the shop, it felt amazing! Just as nice as the day I bought it.

However, after a few days of being back in my basement studio, the guitar neck became extremely bowed, the action raising to an unplayable level. Once again, it exhibited all the symptoms of an overly humid guitar.

I lowered the dehumidifier even more, set up a heater to make the room warmer and drier, kept the guitar in the case, and even purchased D’Addario’s Humiditrak Humidity Control system for inside the Martin’s case. After several weeks of keeping the humidity and temperature in the ideal range, the guitar has shown no improvement and still exhibits all the symptoms of a humid guitar (bowed neck, high action, dull tone and warped back).

My room is at about 44% Humidity and 23 Degrees Celsius. This is supposedly the ideal environment but the guitar is unplayable!

I’m thinking of purchasing an Acoustic Humidor from Acoustic Remedy Cases, but I’d like to get some suggestions before making that pricey investment.

Thanks in advance,
Tyler

What was the humidity at leading up to all this? Do you even know?

[ssynhorst]

I'd stick the hygrometers inside the case for a while; it might have different humidity than the room. Meanwhile you could put the guitar someplace upstairs for a while and see what happens to it. There is something going on somewhere that you need to find. - Stevo

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by SkipII

We may be saying the same thing...

It appears we are. Thanks for the clarification.

[TJNies]

Other have replied to the cause and effect of the humidification, but I'll add my recommendation for the Acoustic Remedy cases.

I have 2 for my acoustics and so far I haven't needed to use the Humidipacks provided. The indicated humidity has amazingly stayed between 40-50% consistently. That's even in the sticky humid summer weather we have in SW Pennsylvania.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by telephototyler

...After several weeks of keeping the humidity and temperature in the ideal range, the guitar has shown no improvement...(bowed neck, high action, dull tone and warped back)...

Kiln. Dried. Woods.

Quantity over quality...

Had similar problems (among others) with two CFM IV-era Martins of my own, seen a number of others among the local musical community over the last quarter-century or so...

Welcome to the "new normal"...

[Jengstrom]

I bought my GPCPA4 in the fall of ‘18. All that winter, the Relative humidity in my practice room was in the low 40’s. When summer came around, the humidity rose to about 70%. I began to notice a higher action. I kept shaving the saddle to get the action lower until there was almost no saddle showing out of the bridge and the break angle was almost nothing.

The neck relief hadn’t changed, so I thought the top had bowed with the added moisture. I thought that once winter came around again, the action would go back down. Nope.

This Spring I took it to an authorized Martin repair shop. Long story short, the shop sanded the bridge down so the saddle could be shaved some more. The pins sit lower so the break angle is better. I thought a neck reset was in order but this is all Martin would pay for. (They said they were doing it as a “courtesy”. So much for their warranty, but that’s a topic for another day.)

The guitar plays much nicer, and sounds better, but I can’t help wonder if whatever moved in the first place will move some more. To help deter that, I won’t expose it to 70% relative humidity again.

John

[SkipII]

Originally Posted by Jengstrom

The guitar plays much nicer, and sounds better, but I can’t help wonder if whatever moved in the first place will move some more.

John

What almost certainly happened was that your top bellied out, raising the action. Measure the radius across the top (center a straight edge on the top and balance it until you get an even gap on each side). Send that to Martin and ask them to compare that to their factory specs. Yea, guitars will always be influenced by their environment -- and 70% is high -- but you should not have had to shave down the bridge to get to a decent saddle break point just because of 70% humidity.

[Jengstrom]

Originally Posted by SkipII

What almost certainly happened was that your top bellied out, raising the action. Measure the radius across the top (center a straight edge on the top and balance it until you get an even gap on each side). Send that to Martin and ask them to compare that to their factory specs. Yea, guitars will always be influenced by their environment -- and 70% is high -- but you should not have had to shave down the bridge to get to a decent saddle break point just because of 70% humidity.

I agree with you. Martin had the repairman take lots of measurements before authorizing the fix. I’m sure a flatness measurement of the top was done. This was all Martin would authorize. I am currently in MI and if this thing moves again, I’ll take it over to Elderly to see what they think.

John

[Earl49]

Originally Posted by Jengstrom

I am currently in MI and if this thing moves again, I’ll take it over to Elderly to see what they think.

That trip to Elderly would be worth doing even if you didn't have a guitar for them to examine. Their opinion would be valuable either way. I agree with the bellied top theory. That is a classic symptom of excess humidity.

Martin - in my direct experience - goes to great lengths to NOT cover things under warranty. Even if it is clearly a defect, they want you to pay shipping to the factory both ways and wait six months to "...give you an estimate and decision about whether we will cover it or not....". In my case they failed to disclose that there was an authorized repairman only a few miles away, even when I asked twice. It is not surprising that they took the cheap and easy route by authorizing the bridge to be shaved down, probably too low, and not great for the long term consequences.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Earl49

...Martin - in my direct experience - goes to great lengths to NOT cover things under warranty. Even if it is clearly a defect, they want you to pay shipping to the factory both ways and wait six months to "...give you an estimate and decision about whether we will cover it or not...". In my case they failed to disclose that there was an authorized repairman only a few miles away, even when I asked twice. It is not surprising that they took the cheap and easy route by authorizing the bridge to be shaved down, probably too low, and not great for the long term consequences.

- and it's little experiences like this that made Taylor #1 in my book when it comes to customer service...

[Earl49]

^^ Ditto, Steve. Two of the four Martin guitars I bought new needed neck resets fairly early on (on immediately and the other at about four years) and they fought me all the way on both. The custom shop 40 series guitar was the worst. At about age two the center seam opened up, some binding came loose, and the bridge peeled up -- all with great humidity care. (My theory was green wood but they disagreed). The authorized repairer found the neck was 1.5 mm off center with the body and the bridge was placed 2 mm too close to the sound hole. Really -- from the custom shop???? When he fixed those things during the neck reset, it finally came back as the instrument it should have been and intonated properly. So I'm done with Martin.

Conversely, none of the nine Taylor guitars I have owned never needed any tweaks or adjustments, even though NT neck resets are easy. I have not needed any factory support from El Cajon, but I know they will provide it cheerfully if the need ever arises.

[telephototyler]

Originally Posted by therailriders

It seems that your readings of the environment may not be accurate and it’s hanging in the 50%++ range. Most Basements are usually not ideal environments for wood.


Are your hygrometers calibrated?

Thanks for your advice! After calibrating the hygrometers, I've realized that my readings were very inaccurate. Calibrating the Hygrometers has given me a far more accurate assessment of the environmental conditions.

[telephototyler]

Originally Posted by JayBee1404

I’ve always believed that it’s dryness that causes increased neck-relief, and excess humidity reduces relief. I’ve been trying to find where I read that but no luck so far. So, if the OP’s neck actually has ‘bowed’, i.e. taken on increased relief, it would suggest his guitar may be too dry rather than too wet. It would help if we knew what relief is in the neck (in thousandths of an inch).

I’m wondering if it’s more the case that over-humidification has caused the guitar’s top to belly, resulting in higher 12th fret action and a change in the neck’s geometry with the body rather than an actual ‘bow’ in the neck. If that’s the case, no amount of swinging on a truss-rod wrench will fix it because it’s not a relief problem.



The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.

Thanks for your advice! I had just assumed that the neck was bowed, due to higher action at the 12th fret, but your assessment seems more accurate. The issue is likely due to bellying.

[telephototyler]

Originally Posted by Dru Edwards

Tyler - Welcome to the AGF!

Sounds like humidity issues. Not sure where you live but basements tend to have lots of dampness. Nothing a good dehumidifier can't handle though.

How big is your studio? Do you keep the door closed to help keep it climate controlled? Also, make sure you dehumidifier can handle the square footage and that it is actually working.

Thanks for your reply! I agree that the issue is almost definitely humidity related.

My studio is about 180 square feet. I always try to keep the door closed and just installed a Door Draft Stopper to seal it off even more. I'm hoping this will help the issue.

My dehumidifier is supposedly able to handle up to 2000 square feet, so it definitely should be effective. However, I switched it Continuous Mode, so it never stops running and I'm noticing an improvement already!

[telephototyler]

Originally Posted by SkipII

Is the neck truly bowed or are you assuming that because of the high action? What usually reacts faster to high humidity is the top -- bellying out. Check it first, if you have some referenda point to do so, or ask your luthier what is typical side--to-side belly. A truss-rod reinforced neck is not likely to move so much because of humidity to where it causes an unplayable higher action.

Also, the whole term for humidity is relative humidity -- relative to the temperature. If I were to get a guitar to dry out, I would cool the room, not heat it. Warm air holds much more humidity than cold air. I had a dehumidifier in my basement (800 sf) and during the summer it pulled a full gallon of water out of the air every day. You need something like that to get some normative humidity and use Humidipaks to fine-tune.

Finally, Humidipaks, in my experience, are good for discharging water vapor not not as good a absorbing it. Either way, they are not all that precise given all the other variables.

If your guitar really absorbed that much moisture, it may take weeks for it to get re-stablizied. Yup don't want to rush it.

Thanks for your reply! I was just assuming that the neck is bowed, based on the fact that the action is highest at the 12th fret. After reading some of the replies on this thread, I realize that the issue is almost definitely due to "bellying".

After running the dehumidifier continuously for a few days, it is slowly getting to the right range. I figured that the Humidipaks were not going to fix such a severe issue but I was just trying everything I could think of.

You mentioned that it may take a few weeks for the guitar to restabilize. Does that mean the issue will resolve itself after a few weeks of being in the ideal environment? Or will I have to take it into a luthier to be repaired?