What are the tonal differences of the Gibson ES: 336, 339 and 356?

[Solosdad]

I have narrowed my choice of a 1st electric guitar to these three. I want a Gibson that is comfortable to play sitting down as well as one that can play some LP type sounds as well as 335 sounds. Your help is greatly appreciated.

Bob

[The Old Gaffer]

Originally Posted by Solosdad

I have narrowed my choice of a 1st electric guitar to these three. I want a Gibson that is comfortable to play sitting down as well as one that can play some LP type sounds as well as 335 sounds. Your help is greatly appreciated.

Bob

The 336 and the 356 are essentially the same guitar except for Binding, position marker and headstock graphics. They should sound the same. They have often been described as being in the neighborhood between a Les Paul and a 335. Their body is hollowed from a single piece of mahogany and they have a solid book-matched maple cap. They are fantastic guitars.

The 339 is built like a classic semi-hollow, with multiple ply top and back, and curved multiple ply rim, and of course, and a solid maple center block. The 339 has the "Memphis Tone Circuit" which the 336/356 do not.

Since both are dual humbucking guitars with mahogany necks and the Gibson neck scale they are going to be somewhat similar. I can say that my 336 is a terrific guitar that is very articulate and gives me a wide range of tones. You wouldn't go wrong choosing one, but you should try to play and compare both.

[Alexrkstr]

Originally Posted by Solosdad

I have narrowed my choice of a 1st electric guitar to these three. I want a Gibson that is comfortable to play sitting down as well as one that can play some LP type sounds as well as 335 sounds. Your help is greatly appreciated.

Bob

Hi Bob,

For that guitar being your first one there's a lot to take into account. As far as electrics go, their "tone" is broken down into:
1) Guitar
2) Amplifier

Don't spend $4k on the guitar and $400 on the amp. To be brutally honest, the "tonal differences" among these will be minimal. The biggest difference is the carved maple vs. the laminate maple (336 & 356 vs. the 339). They both come with the Gibson Classic '57 pickups.

For that type of guitar I would look at two amps: Fender and Vox. Try to learn a bit about amps as well. The same guitar can give you very different tones out of these.

If it was me, and I had the budget I would get a used 339, you can get them f or $1,450 any day and a Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue or a Vintage Reverb

Good luck!

[imwjl]

After obsessing (study, shopping, trying) on this for a few years.....

Solid vs. laminate wood are the major differences to consider and then neck profiles.

I suggest trying 335s before you commit. The two major reasons are they have powerful low notes not present in the smaller bodies and the laminate in the case of an electric is not a negative thing.

I've had solid and laminate hollow and semi hollow guitars and there's some fatness in tone the laminates have. If that description is wrong I'll say the solid wood guitars have some brightness and most make a more acoustic tone when unplugged.

Another reason to consider a 335 is the way they hold value. I'd only get the smaller models used.

Finally on value, I found the Gibson's to be over priced and at times with inexcusable quality for the price. Even the Nashville Custom Shop models with street prices north of $4000 had orange peel and file marks you don't see on a Collings and others.

A shop owning friend let me try a few of his vintage ES guitars and it seemed to me the older ones didn't have as much pickup output as the modern ones called 57. I have a guitar with Lollar Imperials and the pickups in the ES Gibsons definitely spank your amp harder - something you either might or might not want.

If you like the fatter necks Gibson really hits you with a premium.

About a year ago some well known shops had 339s new incl Fat Neck for less than $2000 which probably hurt the resale of the earlier buyers of the Custom Shop models.

If shopping for used look at the set neck construction. Some ES seemed off and some had gaps others didn't have. This seemed most evident with some 135 and older guitars.

Finally, I thought 135s and 137s had more big guitar tone than 339s at prices much better than 335s. The 137s seem to have even more output than the others mentioned. Collings would be another tip if you like 335 big tone but not the Gibson prices or build quality. I see you have a Goodall and Taylor. They might set your standards high for Gibson finish quality and also make the Collings and others attractive.

I'm really glad I delayed the gratification and tried a bunch of stuff even though I do regret not jumping on 2 used 335s that came up.

The gregsguitars youtube site can help you catch differences because you'll catch same good player demonstrating all these with same amp and pedals.

Have fun with it.

[moon]

What are the tonal differences of the Gibson ES: 336, 339 and 356?

Depends more on pickup choices rather than the guitar itself.

I find a 335 is quite comfortable to play sitting or standing.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by moon

Depends more on pickup choices rather than the guitar itself.

I find a 335 is quite comfortable to play sitting or standing.

I'm not agreeing on the pickups part having just finished a whole bunch of testing and owning same product families and the wood types where all the guitars but one had either Gibson 57 Classics, Lollar Imperials and in one case the "custom bucker" (Nashville Custom Shop 1959 style ES). The solid wood guitars have slightly different tone than the laminates, and the 16 inch bout models have or had some bottom end fullness not unlike comparing dreadnought to an 000 or OM.

I'm in full agreement if you're trying to say a model with higher output pickups or different type pickups are what will really make a big difference.

[JonesKY]

Originally Posted by Solosdad

I have narrowed my choice of a 1st electric guitar to these three. I want a Gibson that is comfortable to play sitting down as well as one that can play some LP type sounds as well as 335 sounds. Your help is greatly appreciated.

Bob

best bet would be to just get the 335 or some version (yamaha, ibanez, hamer, etc). advantage to the 335 over the other semi's by Gibson or the other makers: the 335 will retain & increase value over time.

[moon]

Originally Posted by imwjl

I'm not agreeing on the pickups part having just finished a whole bunch of testing

Well, for clean tones, I'd say the sound depends on:

20% guitar
40% pickups
40% amp

For overdriven tones it would be more like:

10% guitar
30% pickups
50% amp

A plank of wood can sound fantastic with nice pups and overdrive.

Maybe I just haven't played enough different guitars - certainly not as many semis as you have - but I'd expect to find more tonal variation even within the PAF "formula" of the pickups you mentioned than there is in the guitar types. If I'm allowed to deviate +/- 10% from the 5,000 turns per coil spec, choose different magnet types and strengths, select a wire type and winding pattern, unbalanced or balanced coils, I could make some very different-sounding pickups.

Am I getting off topic? Perhaps the OP has already narrrowed it down to guitar choice (which is still important) after considering all of the other stuff which affects tone.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by moon

Well, for clean tones, I'd say the sound depends on:

20% guitar
40% pickups
40% amp

For overdriven tones it would be more like:

10% guitar
30% pickups
50% amp

A plank of wood can sound fantastic with nice pups and overdrive.

Maybe I just haven't played enough different guitars - certainly not as many semis as you have - but I'd expect to find more tonal variation even within the PAF "formula" of the pickups you mentioned than there is in the guitar types. If I'm allowed to deviate +/- 10% from the 5,000 turns per coil spec, choose different magnet types and strengths, select a wire type and winding pattern, unbalanced or balanced coils, I could make some very different-sounding pickups.

Am I getting off topic? Perhaps the OP has already narrrowed it down to guitar choice (which is still important) after considering all of the other stuff which affects tone.

My obsession was to get electric guitar happiness like I have with one acoustic so I did a lot of testing with same amp and dragging along the hollow body and my beloved plank with 6 strings (Telecaster).

I figured modern manufacturing had all the pickups (57 Classics, 490s etc...) and other pickups quite the same. Same model guitars were always about identical through the amps.

One funny aspect. My wife doesn't hear any differences but my guitar friends and one of my kids do.

Bottom line here is noise from plucking the lower strings of plywood and bigger bout guitars showed up at my ears differently both plugged in and unplugged. I probably would have gone for the sort I have now in the first place if I was more deliberate and learned that sooner.

[trpullen]

Originally Posted by moon

Well, for clean tones, I'd say the sound depends on:

20% guitar
40% pickups
40% amp

For overdriven tones it would be more like:

10% guitar
30% pickups
50% amp

A plank of wood can sound fantastic with nice pups and overdrive.

Maybe I just haven't played enough different guitars - certainly not as many semis as you have - but I'd expect to find more tonal variation even within the PAF "formula" of the pickups you mentioned than there is in the guitar types. If I'm allowed to deviate +/- 10% from the 5,000 turns per coil spec, choose different magnet types and strengths, select a wire type and winding pattern, unbalanced or balanced coils, I could make some very different-sounding pickups.

Am I getting off topic? Perhaps the OP has already narrrowed it down to guitar choice (which is still important) after considering all of the other stuff which affects tone.

I disagree. There is precious little you can do with pickup windings etc to make a Tele sound like a semi-hollow guitar. There is an inherent change in the fundamental tone of the semi that a solid guitar cannot product. Even slightly chambering a Tele to add some weight relief will alter the tone.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by trpullen

I disagree. There is precious little you can do with pickup windings etc to make a Tele sound like a semi-hollow guitar. There is an inherent change in the fundamental tone of the semi that a solid guitar cannot product. Even slightly chambering a Tele to add some weight relief will alter the tone.

This could be a can of worms, but entertaining if not interesting.

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaste...-thinline.html

I tend to agree with builder Ron Kirn's post after doing pickup swaps while having my 68 and 52 style Telecasters at same time but my Thinline sounds quite different unplugged

The bout size seems to make a significant difference. I did a final round of comparing before my recent purchase and thought a 339 and Less Paul were more alike when plucking the low E than I did the 339 and 335.

Plywood also has an effect - the biggest surprise to me considering we think solid wood should be better but the brain wanted a particular tone.

Now to my wife they all sound like guitars with some louder than others.

The hardest to measure is probably why some guitars just grab you and say write the check!

[moon]

Originally Posted by trpullen

I disagree. There is precious little you can do with pickup windings etc to make a Tele sound like a semi-hollow guitar.

Sure. I'm not trying to say the guitar doesn't matter, just trying to put it into context.

[The Old Gaffer]

Originally Posted by trpullen

I disagree. There is precious little you can do with pickup windings etc to make a Tele sound like a semi-hollow guitar. There is an inherent change in the fundamental tone of the semi that a solid guitar cannot product. Even slightly chambering a Tele to add some weight relief will alter the tone.

You might be surprised at the tones you can get from a Tele if you run it through a Snarling Dogs Very Tone pedal.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by The Old Gaffer

You might be surprised at the tones you can get from a Tele if you run it through a Snarling Dogs Very Tone pedal.

I can accept that to the extent I've had 1 or 2 Telecasters for most of the time I've played an electric and had modeling amps, computer interfaces and a multi-effects board. I made different tones. As time passed trying and having different stuff including pickup swaps, stacked humbuckers in a Fender showed that only goes so far.

In those experiments things like set neck, pickup type and size of guitar stood out. Add hollow vs plywood.

The smaller Gibson semi-hollows are neat guitars but don't sound like a 335, and I'd hesitate to buy one new after watching the 3xx prices since 2009.

I would also sort out the reasons for buying between wanting the look vs what elements of tone. The 4 knob electronics and pickups do a lot of it but Gibson or not, it seems to me like all the wood whether weight, length, width or thickness influence the tone.