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  #31  
Old 04-23-2019, 06:16 PM
Puerto Player Puerto Player is offline
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Originally Posted by eatswodo View Post
A bit harsh, don't you think? Given the materials and the production methods, I suspect that the variation between samples is probably way less than for wood guitars - not just for Emerald, but for any CF maker.

I don't recall anyone here referring to their guitar as poor. Also, given the numbers that Emerald is shipping these days, what gets talked about here is just a small percentage of their production.



Aah, now I recall - you posted this. Your 'bet' was demonstrably not true.

Do you have some personal experience to share?

Yea, I've been playing since '73 and I can assure you I'm not making this up. I have owned a brand new custom $3500 Emerald that shouldn't have left the factory because of it's complete lack of tone. You strum it for 10 seconds and you wonder why there no bloom at all. It was dead. Apart from that, it's gorgeous. Both amplified or acoustically, it didn't have anywhere near the tone it should have. I know what they sound like and I was comparing it to two other X20's I own and play regularly. I think that pretty much proves it, does it not? I also have a very nice selection of guitars, and I know how a good Emerald compares to those too. What I said about them was harsh. But it's the truth too. Any player wouldn't be pleased with what they sent me, especially a hand made, custom, multi thousand dollar guitar.

What I said about that guy on Reverb dumping all those Emeralds, unless it's you, you don't know any more than I do. Who buys all those, then turns them. Who?

My experience with 3 of there guitars is one was a complete dud. My experience, my money, my call.
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Last edited by Kerbie; 04-23-2019 at 07:03 PM. Reason: Edited quote
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  #32  
Old 04-23-2019, 06:33 PM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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FWIW my Rainsong has been played at Alaskan campfire jams on many occasions starting at ~70°F and dropping to 40° as the night wore on. The guitar top also faced the fire from progressively closer distances as I got colder. Every wood guitar was tuning constantly, after literally every song. My RS drifted a bit over an hour, but stayed in relative tune with itself. I also know some touring pro's that used RS to play gigs in the bush. Their guitar would be in the non-pressurized cargo hold of a light airplane at -50° for the flight to the village and the snow machine trip from the airstrip, then a few minutes later be played at room temperature indoors. That would destroy a wood guitar. Yeah, they had to re-tune to concert pitch, but so what?

I do recall a story by a Hawaiian performer about playing his Rainsong on the beach one day, and in the sun it became too hot to touch. I don't recall any comment about tuning drift, but that would be secondary after burned fingers.

-------

Puerto Player, I too think you are being unduly harsh. There have been *some* QC issues experienced by end users, but Alistair has made them right by all that we've heard publicly - including taking the guitar in question back to build another one. I've spoken to him personally by phone about a low setup issue I had on my X30 (its only flaw) and he sent me a new saddle to fit. Otherwise, I have not noticed any significant issues on the other four Emerald's that are in my living room. Ditto for the two Rainsongs, the CA Cargo, the Blackbird Lucky 13 and Farrallon uke, etc.

Not being snarky, but I have to ask: How many Emerald guitars have you personally played, in order to draw such a harsh conclusion? I've played at least 15 myself.... and not a dud in the bunch.
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  #33  
Old 04-23-2019, 06:35 PM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puerto Player View Post
What I said about that guy on Reverb dumping all those Emeralds, unless it's you, you don't know any more than I do. Who buys all those, then turns them. Who?
If you actually read his explanation, he is *reluctantly* selling a few because of a family tragedy - no reflection on their quality or tone. If your experience differs, then don't buy any more Emeralds.
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  #34  
Old 04-23-2019, 07:01 PM
Kerbie Kerbie is offline
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I think we need to be sure our criticisms are accurate and maybe less exaggerated.
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  #35  
Old 04-23-2019, 07:17 PM
jdinco jdinco is offline
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I hope I didn't start any of this with my posts about my X7....even though it was pretty much unplayable when I got it due to a poor setup, I in no way think it is a "dud", the temp/tuning thing has me baffled, maybe that blue color soaks up the heat a little more. I pulled the UST today and just reinstalled the stock saddle. Yeah, it's a bit too low now on the 1st 3 strings. but it does sound better. Assuming it's not because I want it to sound better. LOL I do have to say, even with the few problems I've had, I don't consider them major and it has still been getting most of the play time when I reach for a guitar. I'll get the bone saddle installed the next couple days and see what happens from there. I LOVE the TI Plectrums I installed a week ago, they will be the go to from now on. Also, the comments from Puerto Player doesn't bother me in the least, he is welcome to his opinion and can vote with his money. I'm sorry he had a bad experience. It happens.
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  #36  
Old 04-23-2019, 08:12 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdinco View Post
I hope I didn't start any of this with my posts about my X7....
There's absolutely nothing wrong with posting issues you have with a guitar be it an Emerald or whatever else. People do need to know these things. I'm lucky to have 2 Emeralds with no issues. They're a good company who will address any issues with their guitars. We've seen it before on this forum. Their production has gone up a significant amount and as a result they need a tighter QC. It's how they respond and deal with mishaps that makes them great.
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  #37  
Old 04-23-2019, 08:45 PM
jdinco jdinco is offline
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I agree Luva, my X20 is awesome ! And it came that way right out of the box.
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  #38  
Old 04-24-2019, 06:02 AM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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I've been playing guitar since I was 8 and am about to turn 62. I read on the AGF about different guitars being "duds" and I have to accept that they are factually correct as they see it. BUT, in my entire life of playing and owning 1000s of guitars and being a serial guitar shopper up until recently, I've never heard one (dead strings I have heard).

When I try to imagine Emerald's build process I can accept there might be cosmetic variation, but it is hard for me to see how the acoustic properties could have drastic variation. Frankly I feel the same way about the major wood brands which slavishly reproduce the exact same physical design.

One day I went to Nazareth Music to buy an Eric Clapton 000. They recently got 4 of them from the same production run at the nearby factory the day before. Not surprisingly, I played the one with the nicer looking wood the most during the test and determined it was the best sounding and bought it. In hindsight I am convinced I broke in the strings on that one because it was tough to tell them apart at first. So maybe there was a difference I caused, or maybe I was hearing with my eyes.

Given the huge Internet sales of guitars and all the loving NGD posts, I think the statistics favor me.
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Last edited by jonfields45; 04-24-2019 at 01:40 PM.
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  #39  
Old 04-24-2019, 09:35 AM
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Puerto may be a bit harsh, but if he has experienced a one-in-three failure I can understand his angst.

My only quibble with him is keeping the guitar. Alistair, Joe, Ashvin, and the other makers have all had a failure or two and from what I've read they all try to make things right. You don't sustain a solid business with repeated errors.

I've had 5 Emeralds and never faced an insurmountable problem. But when I read Puerto's report, lo siento.
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  #40  
Old 04-24-2019, 05:54 PM
Puerto Player Puerto Player is offline
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If you think I'm being "harsh" on Emerald, let me just say, I'm a big fan of Emeralds. I own two of the. I have several thousand dollars invested in their guitars and I know what they are capable of building, and I know what a decent Emerald sounds like. What they sent me for $3500 I wound't pay $500 for if I'd got to play it first. I tried about a dozen sets of strings on it. I tried taking the under saddle pickup out, I tried talking with them, nothing worked. I spent a year trying to figure out why this guitar isn't what it should be. In my opinion, the guitar shouldn't have left the factor, but it did. Am I being "harsh", yea, I am, I paid in advance thousands of dollars for "the" guitar with the neck, the nut, the tuners, the pickups, etc, that was everything I loved in a guitar. Just saying.
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2001 Goodall RGCC
2004 Goodall RPC-14
2022 Emerald X20 Hyvibe
2021 Emerald X7 Select
2020 Emerald X10 Woody Select 3-way
2016 Emerald X20 Artisan
2002 Gibson J185EC JJ Cale
2009 Gibson EC-20
1974 Alvarez Dreadnought
2013 Woody Tahitian hybrid Uke
2008 Zager 3/4 Size
Some camp fire guitars, classical's,
& electric's
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  #41  
Old 04-24-2019, 06:01 PM
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David Eastwood David Eastwood is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puerto Player View Post
If you think I'm being "harsh" on Emerald, let me just say, I'm a big fan of Emeralds. I own two of the. I have several thousand dollars invested in their guitars and I know what they are capable of building, and I know what a decent Emerald sounds like. What they sent me for $3500 I wound't pay $500 for if I'd got to play it first. I tried about a dozen sets of strings on it. I tried taking the under saddle pickup out, I tried talking with them, nothing worked. I spent a year trying to figure out why this guitar isn't what it should be. In my opinion, the guitar shouldn't have left the factor, but it did. Am I being "harsh", yea, I am, I paid in advance thousands of dollars for "the" guitar with the neck, the nut, the tuners, the pickups, etc, that was everything I loved in a guitar. Just saying.
So, why didn't you just return it?
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  #42  
Old 04-24-2019, 06:11 PM
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Eatswodo;

Because he spent so long thinking that he could make it right. In the course of doing so, he altered the guitar. Yes, he should have returned it instantly. But he didn't.

I sort of defend Puerto because I can relate to his feelings regarding the situation.

At my stage of life, if I was in Puerto's position, I'd just send the guitar back, even if was beyond its return date, even if I had no guarantee of a buyback.

And I would rag the heck out of maker. This guitar should be worth a pile for a maker interested in making the best possible instrument. If nothing else, I'd load the maker up with guilt. Probably alternate with a little whining and lots of pity, as in "woe is me......"

In any event, I think it's important that this kind of situation is discussed on this forum.
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  #43  
Old 04-24-2019, 06:42 PM
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David Eastwood David Eastwood is offline
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I can't find any trace in the AGF of Puerto Player's issues with his third Emerald.

Indeed, all of his posts about Emerald seem to have been universally positive, until this little brouhaha blew up.

I’d love to hear the other side of the story.
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Last edited by David Eastwood; 04-25-2019 at 06:28 AM. Reason: Be nice, David, be nice.
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  #44  
Old 04-24-2019, 08:43 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
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Nothing wrong with people complaining about issues with a guitar no matter what the brand, whether it be you simply don't like it or there's issues with it bad enough that it shouldn't have left the factory like it.

That being said I don't want to call anyone a liar but I find it hard to believe that he contacted Emerald and they wouldn't help. Alistair is a proud person who stands behind his products and we've seen him come on here and take the blame for mishaps personally.
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  #45  
Old 04-24-2019, 10:07 PM
steelvibe steelvibe is offline
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I've had a guitar I should have returned but kept it. I won't name the builder and it wasn't something I couldn't live with. Tone and fit were outstanding, but that guitar should have not left the factory for aesthetic reasons in my opinion. It should have been a factory second and discounted. I expect a lot from an instrument costing nearly $2000 and because of that experience the company will probably never see another dime from me.

I did call and the option was extended to me to return it but that really isn't the point now is it? All I'm really saying people is that this really does happen- not frequently but it does.
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