Boutique vs Martin for dreads

[Deputy289]

Took home a 2020 Bourgeois D-Vintage this week with Sitka and Indian Rosewood and couldn’t be more in love. It reminds me so much of my old HD-28 in both sound as well as looks. Cosmetically, you would be hard pressed to spot any differences.

The Bourgeois is $1,500 more expensive, even though you are looking at roughly the same ingredients. My question is, when you pay for the premium price for the boutique version, what is going into that extra price tag? Better woods? More “handmade” aspects? Boutique notoriety?

[lfoo6952]

Perhaps all of the above.

[Tnfiddler]

I have an Ambertone D41 that is a phenomenal guitar! Amazing tone, tons of volume and looks that kill! It is a “PERFECT” example of what a Martin dread should be! That being said, my Bourgeois is an Aged Tone Vintage Deluxe dread with Torrefied Adirondack Banjo Killer bracing. The ONLY place the 41 covers it is in looks. The Bourgeois just has more than the Martin. Louder, more dynamic, more clarity, better note separation. Dana has some of the most amazing sets of tone wood in the business and voices each guitar really well. Is it the best dread out there, No! Is it all I need in a guitar, Yes!

[macmanmatty]

Love , care and extra effort into building it. A custom builder will take his time and make a better product than large name maker. Better glue joints, better carving, better bracing shaping. Not that martin doesn't do a fine job but hand made by a custom luthier will usually be better made.

[Zexxor]

Originally Posted by Deputy289

Took home a 2020 Bourgeois D-Vintage this week with Sitka and Indian Rosewood and couldnÂ’t be more in love. It reminds me so much of my old HD-28 in both sound as well as looks. Cosmetically, you would be hard pressed to spot any differences.

The Bourgeois is $1,500 more expensive, even though you are looking at roughly the same ingredients. My question is, when you pay for the premium price for the boutique version, what is going into that extra price tag? Better woods? More “handmade” aspects? Boutique notoriety?

You CAN get good quality, nice sound, strong investment, a lasting product.
But, typically, the amount of "betterness" is not worth the cost. And, conversely, in reality, the luthier does not really make as much as he/she should. The high-end super luthiers that is, they really put a lot into an instrument.
Also, just because a guitar manufacturer can put out a lot of guitars, Martin, Taylor, Gibson, etcetera, does not mean that they are behind a boutique to any degree. Also, with a volume manufacturer, you have more of the model you are interested in to choose from and can effectively get the voice you want. And it is easy to notice that ALL boutiques get their ideas, at least a part of them, from the mainstream manufacturers, they owe them - and that goes both ways as well.
The worst thing about boutique buyers are the stuffed shirts who think they are a special breed. I could afford a boutique if I wanted to push it and make my wife angry, but I don't think I should spend my money that way. It feels prideful and kind of arrogant, but maybe that is what I fear in myself and others who are truly humble do not have that issue.
Just my thoughts.

[Dbone]

Consistent quality is another thing you’re paying for. Guitars at that level are typically constructed to a high tap tuning based standard. Bourgeois probably hasn’t made a bad guitar in their life. Martin has made a ton of bad ones. Lots of good ones too, but lots of not so good.

I would have no problem buying a Bourgeois or similar sight unseen. Can I say the same about a Martin? Absolutely not. My experience with them in the stores says they are very inconsistent. That said, I found a D18 one time that blew my skull. It was amazing.

[RP]

Originally Posted by lfoo6952

Perhaps all of the above.

Yeh, that’s what I was thinking. I'd suggest that not all boutique guitars eclipse all comparable Martins. I previously owned two guitars that might be considered boutique, but I just wasn't wowed by them in any way...

[Brucebubs]

Perfectly aligned push fit tuner bushings.

[Zigeuner]

I've seen many boutique guitars and played a few and some of them are amazing. For the most part they are gorgeous, well-built, sound wonderful, etc. and I'm sure that buyers are generally well-pleased with them.

Martin is still the Gold Standard for many, myself included.

Among boutique owners, you will hear things like:

1.It's better-built than a Martin.
2. It sounds better than a Martin.
3. The woods and finish are nicer than a Martin.
4. It's more expensive than a Martin, but it was worth it.
5. It just looks nicer than a Martin.
6. It's really a better investment than a Martin.

Whatever they say is OK with me. With all due respect to boutique owners and admirers, I'll stick with my little collection of 1960's Martin and Gibson guitars.

[wguitar]

Many good points made so far, but let's focus on price for a minute. Martins are not cheap by any means. A quick google search found a new Martin 000-28 Modern Deluxe Auditorium Acoustic Guitar Natural at GC for $3,999. Is it really that much "better" that a (you name the brand) $3,000 equivalent guitar, or $2,500 or $2,000 ? Similarly, Taylor prices are also getting ridiculous. In response to the OP's original question I would posit that the price point of diminishing returns is in the $2,500 - $3,500 range (give or take). IMHO, Martins are great guitars, many boutiques are great guitars, some Taylors are great guitars, etc. --- it really comes down to personal choice as a player and as a consumer --nothing more.

Enjoy playing whatever guitar(s) you own !

Cheers!

[dnf777]

Value and “worth” are highly subjective terms that are user-dependant!

I’ll say my new D-35 was out of the box perfect as any Dread could be, in terms of construction, finish, tone...basically every aspect was a bulls-eye! I cant see the justification for paying any more. Then I get my Bourgie out and see Dana’s hand-scribed label inside! And...well....

My honest opinion is that a well-built Martin is no better or worse than a Collings, which is no better or worse than a Bourgeoise, etc... its all what its “worth” to the player. For me, a company’s history and leadership actually figure into “value”. For many, the tonewood provenance might add value. I just think that most reputable labels achieve a level of near-perfection as a starting point, that any added value above that, is highly subjective. Whether its worth it, is a personal choice.

[Mbroady]

If you find the best of the best within a Martin series it’s hard to beat. However a few can be average or less then. But from my experience (which is limited compared to some) a smaller shop’s attention to detail (both in construction and appearance) leaves less room for just an average guitar.

Over the last decade or so I’ve purchased around 35 guitars. Most of them were either sent back, traded or sold. The 6 I have left (not including the Rainsong and the electric), to me, are the best of the best, and only one is a Luthier one-off build (got it used).

[Matts67]

Allow me to play devil's advocate and say, most of these builder's are trying to replicate what Martin has been doing for a very long time. In trying to make a name for yourself, there's a certain level of marketing involved, and as they say, perception is reality. People spending big bucks on a guitar that's touted to be a better version of a Martin want to believe exactly that.

I do believe in tap tuning to optimize the bracing to an individual piece of wood, IF you like that builder's voicing. But I also think that there comes a point where, if the bracing pattern is structurally sound but light enough, it will consistently produce excellent guitars. I've never, ever played a bad Martin Authentic. Some GE braced and Standard Series were just "pretty good", and others were outstanding. I've played some that had no business sounding that good at that price point, and I would have chosen them over many boutique instruments that have left me underwhelmed. Hand built with tap tuning does not always equal a great instrument.

A hand built instrument assembled by a reputable luthier is not cheap. But at the end of the day, there are different processes for achieving a similar end result. I wouldn't write off Martin just because they utilize a more efficient assembly line process with CNC labor. With that being said, I don't think Martin is the end-all-be-all. But, I do think there are definitely some overhyped "boutique" brands, and that's the point of this post. I also think that people overlook Martin in search of the next best thing, because they're such a common household name, and there's the perception that boutique = better.

[captain_jack]

A boutique guitar is a luxury item. Like any item luxury item, the value is completely subjective. Does a boutique guitar get more attention to detail and care put into the build? Almost certainly. Will that result in a "better" guitar? that's entirely up to the player/owner.

[musicman1951]

You get what you pay for, if you're lucky.

You want a Martin with that kind of attention, buy an Authentic. I had a D-28 Authentic 1937 that was incredibly powerful with a sweet tone - if you like that Martin dread tone, which I do. They sell in the neighborhood of $6,200 - $7,000. And even at that, the neck wasn't right and needed a 5 month Martin repair.

Sound and feel. If you don't hear/feel or appreciate the difference don't pay for it. The is no question that as you go up the price scale you pay greater amounts of money for relatively small improvements in tone. Some find these small improvements worth the money , some don't. It's not right or wrong, it's just a choice.