New to resonator-- some questions

[Murphy Slaw]

The hard part for me is using a thumbpick and finger picks.

I prefer naked, but don't get that "punch"

[Monty Christo]

Personally, I would never use a shim or other means to raise the action any higher than on a normal acoustic guitar, because I am constantly both sliding and fretting behind the slide. Raising the action messes with the intonation when fretting and makes it more difficult.

IMO, it's far better to work on your slide technique so you aren't clanking it on the frets. A lighter-weight slide can help. If you aren't ever fretting the strings, a lap steel or square-neck might be a better choice of instrument.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by Monty Christo

Personally, I would never use a shim or other means to raise the action any higher than on a normal acoustic guitar, because I am constantly both sliding and fretting behind the slide. Raising the action messes with the intonation when fretting and makes it more difficult.

IMO, it's far better to work on your slide technique so you aren't clanking it on the frets. A lighter-weight slide can help. If you aren't ever fretting the strings, a lap steel or square-neck might be a better choice of instrument.

Except that you are speaking as someone who already plays with a slide. You already know what string height that you like. The point of using some shims is to help find the height that works for the individual. Raising the height a little also may help avoiding the constant bottoming out while learning to control the slide, even if it makes fretting a bit harder at the time. And being that the stacked shims are easily removable, it makes it easy to bring the height back down.

[slide496]

You didn't say what model. I think most of their guitars come with light 12-53 Daddario Phosphor Bronze and are understrung, in which case I would probably keep with something along those lines. The reason is some of their resonators are more substantial than others, but the cones might be the same for all their resonators and there isn't a manufacturer replacement for that.

My Minniebucker is considerably lighter than most resonators that I have played and I think part might be the weight of the the cone, coverplate and tailpiece.

If the guitar is understrung the risk might be - depending on the specific model you have - issues with the size of the strings not agreeing with the model and causing buzzes.

I use banding material to shim nuts, thought I like the idea of aluminum as noted earlier.

I keep my slides in those ziplock containers - nothing special.

When I tried to change the tuning on my Minniebucker from open D to G it didn't accept it - I have 2 Republic resonators that I change string weight and tunings with no issues - and since I like the way it played in open D, I tuned it back and may get a second for open G.

Harriet

[Monty Christo]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

Except that you are speaking as someone who already plays with a slide. You already know what string height that you like.

I haven't always played with a slide, and when I first started, I just played at whatever string height my guitars had.

Originally Posted by Mycroft

Raising the height a little also may help avoiding the constant bottoming out while learning to control the slide

Bottoming out is what teaches control; a nut extender often allows/encourages a heavy-handed approach that has to be overcome later.

[tinnitus]

Saw this in a little shop on Kaua'i a couple days ago and thought of this thread.

[Silly Moustache]

Hi, I'm somewhat concerned tat we haven't seen/heard from Tenzin since his OP in 27/2.

He mentioned that he had a "biscuit" cone type reso, which is best suited to "bottleneck" Bluesy styles, so I'm a bit confused as to why people are talking about raising the nut/action - which simply isn't necessary unless playing lap style.

All that is needed is a set of medium gauge strings and a slightly heavier 1st string.

Remember with blues /bottleneck style you still need to fret normally.

Are you still watching this Tenzin?

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Hi, I'm somewhat concerned tat we haven't seen/heard from Tenzin since his OP in 27/2.

He mentioned that he had a "biscuit" cone type reso, which is best suited to "bottleneck" Bluesy styles, so I'm a bit confused as to why people are talking about raising the nut/action - which simply isn't necessary unless playing lap style.

All that is needed is a set of medium gauge strings and a slightly heavier 1st string.

Remember with blues /bottleneck style you still need to fret normally.

Are you still watching this Tenzin?

He does not seem to be a prolific poster: 300+ posts since 2018. Still, I hope that he is all right.

Andy, I probably started that whole "shim the nut" tangent. It was based on some advice that a local -and very good - bottleneck player told me when I started up. He advised raising the nut slightly -one or two strips cut from a business card, to give a little more clearance when first learning to control the slide without constant bonking the frets. It was intended as a temporary thing to help a beginner gt started. I quickly found that three strips was to high, played with two for a month or so and then one. I found it very good advice. Along with using as short a slide as you can get away with to enhance control, it allowed me to focus on controlling the slide.

[Tenzin]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Hi, I'm somewhat concerned tat we haven't seen/heard from Tenzin since his OP in 27/2.

He mentioned that he had a "biscuit" cone type reso, which is best suited to "bottleneck" Bluesy styles, so I'm a bit confused as to why people are talking about raising the nut/action - which simply isn't necessary unless playing lap style.

All that is needed is a set of medium gauge strings and a slightly heavier 1st string.

Remember with blues /bottleneck style you still need to fret normally.

Are you still watching this Tenzin?

I'm still here and I appreciate all the suggestions and I've enjoyed the talk about raising the nut (even temporarily). I don't believe that's something I'll be doing. I've enjoyed playing in different open tunings and learning the different techniques suited for each. I'd also like to be able to use it in standard tunings and slip in and out with the slide. It really is it's own type of instrument and I need to look at it that way. That is the pleasure of playing it.

I thank everyone for their input.

[KevinH]

Having recently bought a resonator and wanting to dive into slide, this thread has been interesting to me. But this talk of raising the nut/action, or not, is pretty fuzzy. What are you raising the action from, or to? I know people that like the action on all their guitars to be higher than I'd use. Someone like that might not need to raise it for slide. Others like is super low and might need to raise it.

So, I'm curious, what action (at the 12th and 1st) do you normally like when playing slide (in round neck fashion)? And did you start there or lower it as your slide technique got better. Right now I feel like I'm wielding a club.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by KevinH

Having recently bought a resonator and wanting to dive into slide, this thread has been interesting to me. But this talk of raising the nut/action, or not, is pretty fuzzy. What are you raising the action from, or to? I know people that like the action on all their guitars to be higher than I'd use. Someone like that might not need to raise it for slide. Others like is super low and might need to raise it.

So, I'm curious, what action (at the 12th and 1st) do you normally like when playing slide (in round neck fashion)? And did you start there or lower it as your slide technique got better. Right now I feel like I'm wielding a club.

I have very low action, and use light string generally. So when I first started playing bottleneck I whacked the frets a lot. Putting a couple strips cut fro a business card under the nut raised it enough that it did not happen as often, but I could still fret notes. As I gained control, I lowered the nut again. (I do keep one guitar a bit higher, for hybrid slide.) I can do pretty good with my low action fingerpicking guitars too.

How long is your slide? Hope much past the end of your finger does it go? The more it sticks out past the fingertip, the harder to control.They are often longer than they need be. Mine just barely cover all 6 strings, but then again, I seldom do 6 string slides anyway. Most are 1 to 4 strings.

OMMV

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by KevinH

Having recently bought a resonator and wanting to dive into slide, this thread has been interesting to me. But this talk of raising the nut/action, or not, is pretty fuzzy. What are you raising the action from, or to? I know people that like the action on all their guitars to be higher than I'd use. Someone like that might not need to raise it for slide. Others like is super low and might need to raise it.

So, I'm curious, what action (at the 12th and 1st) do you normally like when playing slide (in round neck fashion)? And did you start there or lower it as your slide technique got better. Right now I feel like I'm wielding a club.

Hi Kevin, I have the action on my National at the same as everything else, about over 3/32" & 2/32" but I put an .017" on the first.

I'd advise a heavy steel or brass bottleneck - get one a little bigger than your pinky and "size it" with a sliver of leather inside. I've been through a pile of expensive slides but ordinary off the shelf brass Dunlops are pretty good - 224 or similar.

I fret a lot when playing slide and use it sparingly. A heavier slide does the work, and the power comes from the picking hand.

A bit like this :

[KevinH]

Thanks to you both. Very helpful. I'm just starting to collect slides. Currently settling on a brass Rock Slide that just barely covers 6 strings.

The F12 action on the new reso is nearly 4/32" on the bass and 3/32 on the treble, way higher than I normally use. But I think I'll use it to start out with and see how it goes. I'll give the thicker treble a go as well.

Originally Posted by Mycroft

I have very low action, and use light string generally. So when I first started playing bottleneck I whacked the frets a lot. Putting a couple strips cut fro a business card under the nut raised it enough that it did not happen as often, but I could still fret notes. As I gained control, I lowered the nut again. (I do keep one guitar a bit higher, for hybrid slide.) I can do pretty good with my low action fingerpicking guitars too.

How long is your slide? Hope much past the end of your finger does it go? The more it sticks out past the fingertip, the harder to control.They are often longer than they need be. Mine just barely cover all 6 strings, but then again, I seldom do 6 string slides anyway. Most are 1 to 4 strings.

OMMV

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Hi Kevin, I have the action on my National at the same as everything else, about over 3/32" & 2/32" but I put an .017" on the first.

I'd advise a heavy steel or brass bottleneck - get one a little bigger than your pinky and "size it" with a sliver of leather inside. I've been through a pile of expensive slides but ordinary off the shelf brass Dunlops are pretty good - 224 or similar.

I fret a lot when playing slide and use it sparingly. A heavier slide does the work, and the power comes from the picking hand.

[jansch]

Wade Hampton's post of 03/11/20 says -

..... Don Young at the National Reso-Phonic Guitar Company and I discussed this, back in the early 2000's ...... I asked him exactly this same question, and Don told me you can use any strings you want. The guitar just needs to be set up for it.

When Bob Brozman published his book about Nationals he wrote that anything less than medium gauge strings could "damage" National guitars. Don rolled his eyes as he told me this, and said that the next time he and Mac spoke to Brozman they said: "Oh, come ON, Bob!"

Short version: ... National guitars and other resonator instruments are customarily strung with medium gauge strings or heavier when dropped tunings are used, but there's nothing wrong with using lighter strings, either. You just need to make sure the guitar is set up for the strings that you choose to use.

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I use Elixir mediums 13 - 56 on my MM Blues and Lightnin' resonators, replacing the 13 ist string with a 15, on the Blues (the action is a little lower).

Have a look at the Washboard Resonators YT channel for tons of advice about resos - string types, slides to vintage resonators.
https://www.youtube.com/@TheWashboardResonators


I have 2 Diamond Bottleneck glass slides - they're fantastic. I find brass slides too heavy.

Look at https://diamondbottlenecks.com/ for info about slides - Ian, the MD is a member of this forum, and very helpful.



I keep my two slides in a shallow mug, covering the mug with tissue paper.

Phil

[MissoulaFlood]

I'm relatively new to resos and slide playing. I'm setup 6/32 and 4/32 at the 12th in standard tuning with 12-53 strings. It's a challenge, but I find I'm getting used to it. I'm holding off on going up on the 1st string gauge as long as I'm making progress with my technique.