Setting up Bose s1, Art Dual Pre and Guitar + Mic: Noob advice please

[RFZ1]

Hi all, I would really appreciate some advice on this as I have very little knowledge about this stuff.

I've just bought a Bose S1 Pro and also an Art Dual Pre - as I read on here it might be needed to get more volume out of the speaker. I am connecting to a Shure SM58 mic and a basic Fender electro-acoustic, also have a Fender Acoustic Overdrive pedal that needs connecting too, and I might want to add in a line-out to an Alto 8'' powered speaker. However, I'm new to the Bose (and amplification in general), I've never used a pre-amp or a guitar pedal, the connections confuse me and I'm a bit lost as to what I need to do.

So could someone please describe in basic terms what is the best practice for connecting all this together.

Some key questions:
1) If I plug the mic into the Left input of the Art Pre and the guitar into the Right input, does the left and right output on the back of the Art Pre keep those separated? or does it blend them together? i.e. do i then put the Left output into channel 1 on the Bose and set it to the 'mic' tone setting, and the right output into channel 2 on the Bose and set it to the 'guitar' setting?
2) What type of leads is best to connect the output of the Art Pre to the Bose? TS or TRS to the same or to XLR (the bose takes either, the Art Pre outputs are just 1/4-inch jacks)
3) Do I need both the mic and the guitar to go through the Art Pre? The mic does sound quiet just going into the Bose, the guitar is a bit louder
4) If I do run the guitar through the Art Pre as well as the mic, does the guitar pedal go 'before' the Art Pre, or 'after'?
5) When running the additional speaker (alto 8-inch) from the output of the Bose should I be using a TS to XLR or TLS to XLR?

Apologies if I'm not making much sense with these questions - I may be muddled with the terminology. Thanks in advance.

[Peter Z]

Your questions make sense and terminology is ok as well.

1. The ART Dual Pre is a 2 channel preamp and not a mixer thus, the the right input is routed through the right output and the left input through the left output.

2. Balanced connection (TRS and XLR) deliver a stronger signal and reject noise if you use long cables. For cable lenghts less than 5 meters, you most probably don't need the noise cacelling. You will connect the ART Dual Pre to another preamp in the BOSE. Not much gain is necessary. Both (TS-TS and TRS-XLR) cables will work. With TRS-TRS or TRD-XLR cables you might get more gain than you want. Dial the volume control to a very low setting when you use them.

3. No, you an use just one side of the ART Dual Pre.

4. The pedal should be before the preamp. Most likely there is no need for the ART when you use a pedal, but that depends on the pedal. I would try it without the ART.

5.Same as 2.. Just watch the gain/volume knob on the Alto. Start with the lowest setting and turn it up slowly.

I hope that helps. Have fun!

[RFZ1]

Hi Peter. Thanks for the swift reply. Very helpful.

Can you just clarify answer 2 where you said:

"Not much gain is necessary. Both (TS-TS and TRS-XLR) cables will work. With TRS-TRS or TRD-XLR cables you might get more gain than you want."

Bit unsure which cables you are suggesting would work best for the connection from the Art Pre to the Bose S1. Are you saying TRS-XLR would make it too loud? And therefore a TS-TS (a standard guitar lead?) would be a better choice? Is a TS-XLR a better option here than TRS-XLR?

[Peter Z]

I use XLR-XLR cables from my mixer to the Bose S1 Pro but just because I had them and the output level from the Behringer Flow is a bit less than average. Also it has only XLR output jacks.
In your case I would start with TS cables. If those don’t catch up much noise (they shouldn’t) they are fine. But balanced (TRS or XLR) connections will work as well, just turn the volume on the Bose to a low setting.

First set the input of the ART that the red LED doesn’t flash (or only at the loudest peaks) and then turn up the Bose as loud as you need it. If the LED on the Bose gets red, you reached the highest level you can achieve with your system.

Don’t worry, you will not damage anything - aside of your ears if you get sudden feedback.

[shufflebeat]

Nothing to disagree with above, just to add that the TRS input of the s1 is noticeable less "sensitive" than the XLR, which in this case is a positive thing because a regular line level signal (meters showing expected levels on input/output on most mixers) will result in knobs on the s1 turned up no more than 2 or 2½.

The consequence of this is that a TRS-TRS (or even TS-TS) lead will often be the better option for the Dual Pre.

[Peter Z]

Originally Posted by shufflebeat

Nothing to disagree with above, just to add that the TRS input of the s1 is noticeable less "sensitive" than the XLR, which in this case is a positive thing because a regular line level signal (meters showing expected levels on input/output on most mixers) will result in knobs on the s1 turned up no more than 2 or 2½.

The consequence of this is that a TRS-TRS (or even TS-TS) lead will often be the better option for the Dual Pre.

I have 4 S1 Pros and didn’t recognize that! I thought there is just the ‚natural’ gain difference of 6db between a balanced and unbalanced connection.
Thank you shufflebeat!
I looked up and found it (not that I mistrusted):

XLR: -infinity to + 49 dB
1/4 inch (6.3 mm) Balanced input (Tip-Ring-Sleeve): -infinity + 42 dB
1/4 inch (6.3 mm) Unbalanced input (Tip-Sleeve): -infinity + 36 dB

https://toonz.ca/bose/wiki/index.php...=S1_Pro_system

That is cool, because you can get the balanced connection and a more reasonable fader/knob range at the same time.

So, all type of connections work but XLR(or TRS) to TRS (Bose input) are preferable.

[RFZ1]

Excellent informative answers. Thank you both.

I'll try out the TRS-TRS option based on this and hopefully everything else will fall into place. Although I'm very likely to be back with further noob questions!

[zeeway]

Originally Posted by Peter Z

I have 4 S1 Pros and didn’t recognize that! I thought there is just the ‚natural’ gain difference of 6db between a balanced and unbalanced connection.
Thank you shufflebeat!
I looked up and found it (not that I mistrusted):

XLR: -infinity to + 49 dB
1/4 inch (6.3 mm) Balanced input (Tip-Ring-Sleeve): -infinity + 42 dB
1/4 inch (6.3 mm) Unbalanced input (Tip-Sleeve): -infinity + 36 dB

https://toonz.ca/bose/wiki/index.php...=S1_Pro_system

That is cool, because you can get the balanced connection and a more reasonable fader/knob range at the same time.

So, all type of connections work but XLR(or TRS) to TRS (Bose input) are preferable.

Thanks for that ref - the best/most complete I have seen on the S-1.

[RFZ1]

A few updates and some more questions for you guys.

Before trying out the ART I plugged my guitar and mic into the S1 to see what kind of maximum volumes I could get.

With the mic in Channel 1 with the mic tone setting on and EQs at 50% I can turn the volume all the way up and it's not as loud as I would hope. There was no noise or feedback, however, so that was great.

With the guitar in Channel 2 with the guitar tone setting on and EQs at 50% (volume on guitar itself is turned up almost all the way), as soon as I hit the 50% volume bit on the S1 there is some noticeable hiss and buzz. At around 75% volume I hit feedback. It's pretty loud, but I'm slightly concerned about the hiss/buzz.

The buzz disappears if I touch the guitar lead where it is plugged in. Have tried this with multiple leads and same thing happens. Is this some kind of grounding/earthing problem? How can I avoid this, other than keeping my hand on the lead!!!

I then tried the setup with the ART Dual Pre plugged in via TRS-TRS. I can see that it I get louder volumes at lower levels of the volume dial on the S1 - not sure if I'm actually getting louder volumes overall though - hard to tell until I give it more of a test.

A question on this:
Should I be setting the inputs on the ART to high levels, then setting the output at say 50%, and then adjust the Channel 1 (mic) and Channel 2 (guitar) volumes on the S1 to get the volume/mix I want?

Or, can I leave both channels - guitar and mic - on the S1 set at 50%. Set the output level on the ART to 50% and then adjust the input levels on the Left (mic) and Right (Guitar) inputs to get the volume I want. I can see this would be helpful in a gig situation as I can have the S1 further away and be able to control the volume/mix from the ART close by.