Taylor…Worst to Best

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

"Obsolete" is a relative term for acoustic pickups. How old are The Fishman Matrix, the Baggs element or the K&K pickups?

I believe Fishman Matrix is 30 years old... and still alive.
K&K twin spot was introduced in 1990.

Taylor marketing is aimed to promote novelty and thus dooms older products to obsolescence.

By obsolete, I mean broken. It took four years for my ES system to fail. Taylor wouldn’t help. There’s a reason why they had three versions of the original ES. Unfortunately there are tons of players out there with the first two versions which are prone to breaking. Baggs, K&K and Fishman know pickups. Taylor is trying to know pickups but isn’t there yet.

I should add that I also have the Taylor K4 preamp and guess what, it doesn’t work either! That was a terrible design. XLR out was so low it was unusable.

[Cuki79]

I thought Taylor would fix their own pickup. I am surprised. There are shops to buy NOS Taylor ES parts.

I had a K4. It worked but it did no magic... jusb subtle EQ change... and you needed to read the manual to wire it correctly.

[6L6]

I only buy used Taylors with no pickup installed. Then I put in a K&K.

I am not a fan of the ES1 or ES2 systems. Many options out there sound much better to my ear, and the K&K sounds best.

YMMV

[Cuki79]

Here is a website for Taylor parts

https://www.dannyd.com/taylor-pickups/

[Cuki79]

Here is another with Taylor ES spare parts

https://guitarrepairparts.com/collec....vendor=Taylor

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

I thought Taylor would fix their own pickup. I am surprised. There are shops to buy NOS Taylor ES parts.

I had a K4. It worked but it did no magic... jusb subtle EQ change... and you needed to read the manual to wire it correctly.

Yes, the K4 was a letdown for sure. I read that manual more times than I would like to admit. What it came down to was that you needed to go out of the 1/4” balanced output to get proper output levels. Basically a TRS to XLR cable. IMO this was a weird option for a preamp like this.

Yes, you can find parts but why am I the customer made to buy parts for a system that’s not designed properly?

[Guitars44me]

I have had a lot of Taylors over the last 30 years. My fave factory pup is the

ES1.3.

I believe, and the Taylor website has said it is the closest to a good condenser mic in tone.
But the signal is not Hot at all and can often benefit from a good external preamp.
I have used a RedEye successfully with the 1.3

Still, anymore I would prefer to have a K&K for the simplicity, weight reduction and the tone, as well. I don’t want a battery in my axe anymore.

The 1.2 with the retrofit soundhole pup is a nice sound, too. Especially for slide, where the bottleneck is not often positioned directly over the neck sensor, which can be a weak spot.

Not a fan of any UST, or extra holes in the axe, unless it is a sound port! Hahaha

I too, found the K4 disappointing. It was WAY to complex to be used live, and just distracting. Too many adjustments possible and all of them capable of making the tone worse!

KISS for me

YMMV, of course

Cheers

Paul

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by Guitars44me

KISS for me

YMMV, of course

Paul

Yep, same here. That is why after chasing down pre/DIs for years I settled on the Baggs Session or RedEye. It help me focus on other things. I say this of course while completely understanding that one size does not fit all. One of the best live tones I’ve ever heard is Phil Keaggy, and he runs a much more complex rig.

[guitaniac]

The Taylor 314ce that I owned started life with a Fishman Prefix system which was swapped out for a Baggs LB6 (this was pre Aura). After that came an iMix, followed by an iMix plus M1 on a second jack, followed by a DTAR Wavelength used with a DTAR Mama Bear, followed by Wavelength plus PUTW SBT on the second jack (in it when I sold the guitar).

The iMix plus M1 was probably my favorite sound and feel because the iBeam was very dynamically responsive to hard strumming and the M1 added some nice low end. Unfortunately, the M1 clicked every time I struck it with a pick or fingernail.

I DID have to properly EQ the iMix to avoid feedback in a very noisy setting. Looking back on it, however, I have to admit that the Wavelength/Mama Bear combo also had its feedback issues. I had to be careful about which “target guitar” selections I used for bare-fingered picking.

PS I still regret selling this guitar. The neck shape and fretboard width were perfect for my tastes. I’m not sure what pickups I’d equip it with. The Anthem SL has the best proven performance at gigs, but I like to experiment and would love to experiment with a Baggs Lyric & Mojotone NC-Passive combo.

[waterlooz]

I consider the ES-B system my least favorite. i sold the gs mini it was in. I thought the ES-1 was okay and the ES-2, which I have in a 312ce and Koa e plus, is fine. I have found it possible to dial in great tone through my schertler via some pedals.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

The Taylor 314ce that I owned started life with a Fishman Prefix system which was swapped out for a Baggs LB6 (this was pre Aura). After that came an iMix, followed by an iMix plus M1 on a second jack, followed by a DTAR Wavelength used with a DTAR Mama Bear, followed by Wavelength plus PUTW SBT on the second jack (in it when I sold the guitar).

The iMix plus M1 was probably my favorite sound and feel because the iBeam was very dynamically responsive to hard strumming and the M1 added some nice low end. Unfortunately, the M1 clicked every time I struck it with a pick or fingernail.

I DID have to properly EQ the iMix to avoid feedback in a very noisy setting. Looking back on it, however, I have to admit that the Wavelength/Mama Bear combo also had its feedback issues. I had to be careful about which “target guitar” selections I used for bare-fingered picking.

PS I still regret selling this guitar. The neck shape and fretboard width were perfect for my tastes. I’m not sure what pickups I’d equip it with. The Anthem SL has the best proven performance at gigs, but I like to experiment and would love to experiment with a Baggs Lyric & Mojotone NC-Passive combo.

Tom Petty used the imix with the M1 from 2006 until his final show in 2017. If I remember correctly, the sound tech would put mostly M1 in the monitors to control feedback but run more of the ibeam for the front of house tones. Petty always had a nice acoustic sound.

[j3ffr0]

I have 3 Taylors and they all have the ES 1.3 in them. It's my favorite, but it is not without its faults. It can get harsh on some notes played up the neck -- B-string in particular, and if your eq options are limited, it can be tough to deal with.

I have kind of liked the ES 2 from time to time and other times been kind of meh....

All pickup systems are a compromise. On the guitars I gig with I've got multiple options so I can blend. For instance, I put a mic inside my 314.

[IraDuncan]

To date my favorite sound is my Fishman Rare Earth mic blend.

2 of my Taylors have Fishman Stereo Blenders with K&K PWMini transducers running to the preamp. The bridgeplate pickups are installed under the EA and BE strings. That left me with 2 bridgeplate pickups to be used at a later date.

My next guitar will get a Fishman Rare Earth of some variant unless it is equipped with the barn door preamp.

[Cuki79]

I had a couple IR requests lately so I thought I could post some demos. (with the authorizations of the guitar owners)

Each time you get an external microphone recording to have an idea of the guitar's true tone, followed by a simultaneous recording of the pickup.
Each time I post the same pickup recording with various flavour of IR applied. The goal of the post is not to demonstrate the IRs... I just used the demo filed I 've actually sent to the guitar owners so they had an idea of what to expect. I did not bother shortening the demo files.

First guitar is a Taylor 614ce with the old Fishman Prefix pickup
The samples are:
1) External Microphone
2) Pickup (Fishman Prefix)
3) Home made IR M-file
4) Home made IR MFFQN-file



Second guitar is a Taylor PS14ce FLE with the ES1.3 pickup
Samples are:
1) External Microphone
2) Pickup Taylor Expression System 1.3
3) IR "Quackless" HX preset
4) IR "Dry" HX preset
5) IR "Mic-like" HX preset(MFFQN file)
As expected, my IR process does not help much for a magnetic pickup such as ES1.3.


The third guitar is a Taylor PS14ce with the ES2 pickup
1) External Microphone
2) Expression system 2
3) IR "Quackless" preset
4) IR "Dry" preset
5) IR "Mic-like" preset (MFFQN file)


The fourth guitar is a Taylor 424e
1) External Mic
2) Pickup (Taylor ES2)
3) Pickup + IR2_424_44k_2048_MFFQ3N.wav
4) Pickup + IR2_424_44k_2048_M2.Wav

[moosedog]

Count me in for 2 broken ES1.1’s. First one was in an 06 712e several years ago and was replaced by Taylor at my local shop. That guitar was ultimately traded away. Two weeks ago it died in a recently acquired 04 712e (30th anniversary). Local shop contacted Taylor and was told they no longer supported guitars over 10 years old. I had them remove the ES1 and install a Baggs Anthem SL. They did a great job plugging the holes and I really REALLY like the SL. The shop charged me no labor and just half of the cost of the SL pickup as I had only bought the guitar a month before. I have had a few Taylors with the ES2. The first version (came out in 2015) was very “hot” and hard to eq on stage. Subsequently, a 610e, a 714ce and an 814ce were traded away. I still have a 717e Builders Edition with an ES2.3 that is much easier to eq and I get along fine with it. I think the sound is good too. To sum up, if you want a Taylor with a factory installed pickup, the ES2.3 is the best for overall sound quality and stage use.