Alternate Picking Puritan?

[@lagatrix]

Somehow, to my enduring surprise, I found discipline in my guitar practice about three years ago, and devote between one and four hours to focused daily playing without fail. I've been learning fiddle tunes. At first, I thought of these as etudes, as a means to train my ears and hands to recognize and reproduce melody. But as with classical etudes, fiddle tunes are beautiful and fascinating in their own right, the more time one devotes to them.

My question for all of you who have been at this for many more years than I have is this: How strict are you with alternate picking? I've taken a few classes with a brilliant guitarist in the "chamber-grass" vein, and he feels pretty strongly that one should adhere to a down up pattern all the time. I understand the values of alternate picking, in its clarity, fluidity, and metronomic quality. But it seems like, though this might be the most regimented way to get from point A to point B, is it always the most expressive, the most creative?

I imagine there are differing opinions on this subject, and I'd be grateful to hear the varied thoughts and opinions from all of the monster pickers who frequent these parts... how do you all think about this, relative to tone production, to improvisation, to playing with others, to...?

Thanks,
Ian

[mr. beaumont]

I'm pretty steady alternate during fast stuff unless crossing strings towards the floor, then ill play consecutive downstrokes.

For non fast playing, I use as many downstrokes as possible a la Charlie Christian.

[BlueStarfish]

The argument for strict alternative picking in bluegrass and other flatpicking-centric genres, is that it makes it much easier to give your playing the rhythmic feel that makes the genre work. Listen and watch videos of flat-picking masters — to get that rhythm and groove they are really relying on the constant DUDU of strict alternate picking as a built-in metronome and time keeper. The same material played economy picking would just not sound “right.”

Additionally, proper alternate picking flatpicking technique is key to the tone and volume that great players produce. So in my opinion, if your goal is fiddle tunes, then learning proper alternate picking technique is invaluable. And at the same time, fiddle tunes are a fantastic way to practice alternate picking technique.

There are commonly-practiced exceptions. For example, triplets, as well as tunes in 6/8 (jigs and similar). At slow to moderate speeds, a DUD pattern is commonly used for these situations. The DUD jig pattern is more difficult to play at high speeds, and I know I often need to switch to a six-note DUDUDU pattern for triplets and jigs. Another common exception is that some players use a DDU pattern in a 3/3/2 grouping (so, DDUDDUDU) for certain arpeggiated syncopated phrases that are called “crosspicking.” And of course many players will sneak in some hybrid picking, especially for things like double-stops.

Flatpickers also heavily use pull-offs, hammer-ons, and slides. Partly for phrasing effect. But partly because it eliminates pick strokes here and there, which helps at speed.

The technical challenge in strict alternate picking is to master the down-up picking mechanic in a way such that the pick clears the strings in both directions (so that you can switch strings cleanly). If you learned to pick fast by imitating shred metal players on electric guitars, that’s generally a different picking technique and you’re going to want to re-learn your picking technique to really master fiddle tunes. Most fiddle tune arrangements assume the player is relatively unconstrained in switching strings, regardless of picking direction.

If that last paragraph was mumbo-jumbo to you, then go check out Troy Grady’s website and consider buying a one or two month subscription to access all of his learning materials. He does amazing work pulling apart different picking mechanics and showing you how and why they work. Then check out Bryan Sutton’s course on ArtistWorks.

[Robin, Wales]

I understand the values of alternate picking, in its clarity, fluidity, and metronomic quality. But it seems like, though this might be the most regimented way to get from point A to point B, is it always the most expressive, the most creative?

I thought that I wanted to be a bluegrass flatpicker....but have quickly given up on the idea! My guitar lead breaks during songs are simple melody based Carter style affairs. I am not strictly DUDU but play what comes naturally, easiest and rhythmically works.

I know a lot of fiddle tunes on dulcimer, and I know a lot of fiddle tunes on banjo (see signature) but I have really not bothered to convert them onto guitar. IMHO they sort of don't work as well on guitar as they do on fiddle or clawhammer banjo - and when I hear them played on guitar it's the fiddle or banjo versions that I'm remembering, and comparing them to.

[Mandobart]

I started on violin over 50 years ago. I took up bluegrass fiddle (and acoustic guitar) just a few years later.

When I play fiddle tunes, bluegrass or old time on my fiddles, I'm almost never strictly doing down-up bowing - there is a lot going on rhythmically with the bow.

I see no reason why flatpicking a guitar or mandolin should be different. Yes there are times/tunes that call for straight D-U-D-U but there are plenty of times/tunes/reasons to mix it up.

[RodB]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

…..I see no reason why flatpicking a guitar or mandolin should be different. Yes there are times/tunes that call for straight D-U-D-U but there are plenty of times/tunes/reasons to mix it up.

My view as well - before I concentrated on fingerstyle I played lead - electric and acoustic. I would say that there are many skills that should be mastered during the learning process like DUDU picking but like many things this is a tool to be used where appropriate not adhered to where phrasing and note duration might better call for some variation. In time it becomes intuitive.

[The Bard Rocks]

Keep in mind that the down stroke seems to naturally convey emphasis better, a reason in favor of alternate as you don't want to emphasize everything. Alternate is faster too. But alternate's a rule made to be broken. If you only use down strokes, you are severely limiting yourself, just as you would be if you strictly used alternate.

[@lagatrix]

Thanks, All, for sharing your varied thoughts on this topic.

You give me a lot to think about here... It's obvious that a big piece of how and why we develop particular skills has to do with what kind of music we're drawn to and how we aspire to play. Mercifully, I have no aspirations to keep up with Molly Tuttle or Chris Thile—I'm decades too late in my life for this!! The good news for me is that acoustic music at athletic speeds leaves me a bit cold most of the time.

But as I practice, the speed of my metronome is slowly creeping upward as my skill builds. And alternate picking does have a wonderful clarity. I guess part of why I started this thread was to try to assuage my slight guilt at being fascinated by the infinite routes between A and B that don't strictly adhere... I guess I'm just itching to improvise a bit!

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by @lagatrix

. . . How strict are you with alternate picking? . . .

Not. I'm highly lefthanded, so my right hand is too stupid to manage it.

During Covid I put three years into improving my right hand's agility, and it got a little better. There are a few songs I can pull off now, but Jorma will never have to watch his back.