To Lunchbox(500series) or hard box it?

[AcousticDreams]

Honestly, I get more direct, more practical solutions to my acoustic guitar recording questions here on AGF, than on Gearslutz.

I think there are a lot of reasons for this. Many on Gearslutz are coming from an Engineers perspective. They need things to work right for the general studio needs. And they are looking for a piece of equipment that works on multiple sources.
As we are looking for equipment and techniques that bests represents our great sounding Acoustic guitars.

*To Lunchbox-chasis with 500 series, or hard box it?

1. Within a given brand and model, Is there any difference in quality between a 500 series and the hard box.
As just one example let us use Elysia Xpressor stereo compressor and counterpart the Elysia xpressor 500series.
There is a $500 difference between the two. Are we basically paying for the box and the connectors on back of the box? Or Can there be other differences in 500 series verses the hardbox counterpart as far a quality or function?

2. Are there differences in Lunchbox chassis? I would think so? There are connectors and some wiring? So would there not be some...sound difference? Does hard box or 500 series give better routing options?

3. If your answers to 1 & 2 are of a positive nature, then what 500 series chassis do you recommend?

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

Honestly, I get more direct, more practical solutions to my acoustic guitar recording questions here on AGF, than on Gearslutz.

That's probably because there are a lot of people on GS who speak up without possessing much knowledge the issue being discussed. You have to become adept at filtering out the flotsam on GS or you could find yourself taking bad advice.

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

*To Lunchbox-chasis with 500 series, or hard box it?

1. Within a given brand and model, Is there any difference in quality between a 500 series and the hard box.

Sometimes. Some 500 units are identical and some are limited in some way from the rack version.

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

As just one example let us use Elysia Xpressor stereo compressor and counterpart the Elysia xpressor 500series.
There is a $500 difference between the two. Are we basically paying for the box and the connectors on back of the box?

In the case of the xfilter, I own the 500 unit and there's no difference I know of between that and the rack unit. The difference in price can be attributed to the power supply, the larger box, additional labor in assembly, and higher shipping costs for the larger and heavier rack unit.

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

Or Can there be other differences in 500 series verses the hardbox counterpart as far a quality or function?

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

If you look at the two units side-by-side, you'll see that you have all the same controls and buttons. The only difference you'd have between them is the power supply, but so long as you're not underpowering the unit, all should be identical.

When 500 series units starting gaining in popularity about a decade ago, there were complaints about some of the chassis being made. That chatter was foreboding enough to keep me away from 500 series units. I started getting interested again about 18 months ago and found that complaints about boxes had mostly subsided. I jumped in and bought a CAPI 11-space chassis. CAPI is a dyi company and I found someone on another forum to do the build for me. I think it wound up costing me $600 for the rack and power supply. I had to return the original power supply because it had a fault but I've had no issues with the box or the psu since then. For the money, the CAPI unit is a solid buy. The company has a great rep and a pretty large fan base.

Last March I started a thread about my jump into the 500 stuff. You can read it here:
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=540383

[KevWind]

I don't have any 500 units BUT if I were going to expand my analog pieces or, If I was starting from scratch, it is definitely something I would seriously consider . Once you get past the initial outlay for the chassis, they are usually 1/3 to 1/2 the price of the rack mount units.
Besides Jim and Brent I personally know two engineers who use and swear by 500 series , because of the price point and versatility

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by KevWind

...because of the price point and versatility

And space. My 11-bay chassis takes up 4 rack spaces. Even if I filled the 11 spaces with 2 channel single space rack units, the chassis still takes up 2 less units than the six I'd need for the rack units.

[AcousticDreams]

Thank you so much Jim1960, your answers are of great value. Been reading through your other thread.

More questions to come...Possibly another new thread. But as far as 500 series you have relieved my anxiety.

Since I will be purchasing limited amount of effects;two mono's or one stereo preamp, a stereo compressor, and possibly a valve mic pre for voice, I will still have to debate which will be more practical verses saves monies.

I will be investigating the Capi more. I was hoping that they made a lesser than 11 space unit. I do not believe they do. But at the price of just over $300, I have a good friend that can hep me assemble it if I decide to go with 500 units. Now all I got to do is understand what the heck is the difference between those 4 models.

[Brent Hahn]

KevWind did my vouching for me, which is fine. I love my little API 6-slot box. It's such an early one, though, that it doesn't have d-sub connectors on the back. Make sure the one you get has them.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

Thank you so much Jim1960, your answers are of great value. Been reading through your other thread.

More questions to come...Possibly another new thread. But as far as 500 series you have relieved my anxiety.

Since I will be purchasing limited amount of effects;two mono's or one stereo preamp, a stereo compressor, and possibly a valve mic pre for voice, I will still have to debate which will be more practical verses saves monies.

I will be investigating the Capi more. I was hoping that they made a lesser than 11 space unit. I do not believe they do. But at the price of just over $300, I have a good friend that can hep me assemble it if I decide to go with 500 units. Now all I got to do is understand what the heck is the difference between those 4 models.

You're welcome. If you have someone that can do the assembly, the CAPI is your best bet. The quality is rock solid and you're certainly not going to find better for that price. Which version you get really depends on your set up. I got the one with the Dsub connectors because I didn't want to add another 22 cables to the mess behind my rack. I bought a couple of 8 channel Dsud/TRS snakes so I could connect the chassis to a patchbay.

This will give you some sense as to the size of the unit.


And this is how I connect with the 500 units in the chassis. The Dsub snakes break out into TRS connectors that go into the back of the lower left patchbay. The XLR patchbay is for my preamp inputs. The preamp outs are the right side middle patchbay. From there I can patch into compressors and eqs before heading into my Apollo interface on the bottom right or into my Apogee 800 on the top right.

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

I love my little API 6-slot box. It's such an early one, though, that it doesn't have d-sub connectors on the back. Make sure the one you get has them.

As I recall, the API chassis were the safest bet a decade back when there were a fair amount of units that didn't play nice with certain chassis. I think they were also among the most expensive as well.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by jim1960

As I recall, the API chassis were the safest bet a decade back when there were a fair amount of units that didn't play nice with certain chassis. I think they were also among the most expensive as well.

That makes sense since it's the format they'd been using for their consoles since the '70's. I didn't think much about it at the time because I was primarily buying the used preamps that came in it, and only learned later that not all lunchboxes are the same. I was under-schooled about it but got lucky.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

KevWind did my vouching for me, which is fine. I love my little API 6-slot box. It's such an early one, though, that it doesn't have d-sub connectors on the back. Make sure the one you get has them.

Did not mean to speak for you out of turn, but it seems you had posted a fairly positive post in Jims linked thread, which is what I was referring too.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Did not mean to speak for you out of turn, but it seems you had posted a fairly positive post in Jims linked thread, which is what I was referring too.

Not a problem, didn't mean to imply that it was :-).

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

Not a problem, didn't mean to imply that it was :-).

You didn't, I just realized it from the other thread

[RRuskin]

As long as the rack's power supply is up to the task, 500 series equipment should perform as well as their stand-alone counterparts.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by RRuskin

As long as the rack's power supply is up to the task, 500 series equipment should perform as well as their stand-alone counterparts.

So how does one know if the racks power supply is sufficient or not?

Got a message from Elysia. I had asked them if there was any difference between thier 500 series and the rack unit.

Here is what they said:
Both devices contain exactly the same electronics, so they hardly differ.

However, the power supply still has an influence, but that depends on the 500 rack,

[ChuckS]

I don't have experience with 500 series, so this is more of a question to get more informed.

Am I correct in that the power supply voltage supplied by the 500 series chassis is +/- 16V? If so there may be some differences in specs for a piece of gear that is available in both a rack mount and 500 series, if the rack mount version uses a higher voltage supply (i.e. +/- 24V). For example, a preamp with a +/- 24V supply could have a higher max output than a preamp running on a +/- 16V supply. In most cases this probably doesn't matter. Another thought is that a rack mount preamp with large input and output transformers may not fit in a 500 series package.

[AcousticDreams]

After Ruben from Elysia mentioned " the power supply still has an influence, but that depends on the 500 rack"

I then posted this question in reply to him: ( very impressive Responses, clear and easily understood. Kudos To Elysia for great customer service!)

Thank you so much for your time and explanation.

"So then If the power supply has an influence:

* How do I know if the rack has a good enough power supply?

* And because it is sharing power with other 500 series in the rack, Does that cause some type of Cross-bleed Effecting all the units?

+ How do I ensure that the 500 rack I buy is up to par and or does not weaken the signal of your unit? There must be some kind of printed measurement standard on the power supply?"

His Reply"
Hello, Victor,

"One of the most important parameters of a rack is how low noise and hum-free the power supply is.

This is comparable to the background noise of any audio device.

Unfortunately, almost no manufacturer specifies this and it is not specified.

Regarding crosstalk to the different modules there are no problems.

Since there are so many different manufacturers and racks, we can only make recommendations."

We have had good experience with API, Rupert Neve and WES Audio."