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  #1  
Old 09-30-2015, 06:15 PM
3rd_harmonic 3rd_harmonic is offline
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Default damage during car accident

was rear ended earlier today. Rainsong jumbo was in the back seat. Something ...like the edge of something sharp....hit the top and punctured it so it looks like a slot you could maybe fit a dime through....maybe a quarter ( I don't have it in front of me). It is insured. I'm wondering if it will affect the sound. And also if someone has experience with insurance, wondering what I should expect from the insurance company.

I and the other driver walked away without going to hospital but it was a severe impact.
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Old 09-30-2015, 06:22 PM
HHP HHP is offline
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Unless something unusual was involved, the other driver will be at fault as he hit you in the rear. When you talk to his insurance company you need to advise them of the damage beyond the car itself and find out what they need to process the claim. You may want to get the manufacturer to quote on a repair.
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Old 10-01-2015, 08:02 AM
ChunkyB ChunkyB is offline
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For what it's worth, I have a similar ding on my Shorty. Albeit much smaller. I accidentally picked up the case without it being latched, and the little sharp piece on the clasp hit the top and punctured it. I'm not sure what top yours has, but the unidirectional top has kind of a thin top layer with a thicker layer underneath. It didn't affect the thicker under layer at all, and has had no effect on tone or structural integrity.

Rainsong told me that it's not really worth "repairing" the carbon fiber. I don't even know if it would be possible. I think the main downside would be looks.

Also, as a side note, can you imagine if it had been a wooden guitar? I'm guessing it would be a total loss.
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Old 10-01-2015, 08:33 AM
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Acousticado Acousticado is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChunkyB View Post
For what it's worth, I have a similar ding on my Shorty. Albeit much smaller. I accidentally picked up the case without it being latched, and the little sharp piece on the clasp hit the top and punctured it. I'm not sure what top yours has, but the unidirectional top has kind of a thin top layer with a thicker layer underneath. It didn't affect the thicker under layer at all, and has had no effect on tone or structural integrity.

Rainsong told me that it's not really worth "repairing" the carbon fiber. I don't even know if it would be possible. I think the main downside would be looks.

Also, as a side note, can you imagine if it had been a wooden guitar? I'm guessing it would be a total loss.
This instance for the OP and you is one where maybe a total loss would be a better outcome if it can't be fixed without any sign of damage. Even if the tone isn't affected, resale value definitely will be. With these particular Rainsongs, I'd want a new guitar. Of course, I don't know the extent of the impact to cause the punctures, but I'm actually surprised. I'm not saying I think CF guitars are impervious and I can understand it happening to one, but two such reports? It has me wondering if Rainsongs are more susceptible than offerings of other CF builders.
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Old 10-01-2015, 08:57 AM
ChunkyB ChunkyB is offline
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Originally Posted by Acousticado View Post
This instance for the OP and you is one where maybe a total loss would be a better outcome if it can't be fixed without any sign of damage. Even if the tone isn't affected, resale value definitely will be. With these particular Rainsongs, I'd want a new guitar. Of course, I don't know the extent of the impact to cause the punctures, but I'm actually surprised. I'm not saying I think CF guitars are impervious and I can understand it happening to one, but two such reports? It has me wondering if Rainsongs are more susceptible than offerings of other CF builders.
I've seen some talk in the past about the uni-directional tops being too soft, but I don't necessarily agree. I think they are softer than what we consider traditional carbon fiber weave, but that's why they sound like they do. And I think they're certainly not any softer than even the hardest wood tops.

Also, while not a car accident, my accident was a significant impact on the top. I think any guitar, regardless of materials and construction, would have been damaged. And even in my case, if it had been a wood guitar, it would have been MUCH worse damage. Also, since it was due entirely to my own stupidity (and nyquil) I'm very glad it wasn't a total loss, because insurance would have done nothing for me.
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Old 10-01-2015, 01:59 PM
3rd_harmonic 3rd_harmonic is offline
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My insurance company wants me to get an estimate for repair. They might not buy off on the idea that resale value is severely lowered. Any ideas where or how I would get an estimate? I could send pictures to someone and maybe they could give me an estimate?
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Old 10-01-2015, 02:58 PM
Uncle Pauhana Uncle Pauhana is offline
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The insurance company will demand an estimate from someone with credentials... a known luthier or tech for instance.

And as somebody mentioned, it's the OTHER driver's insurance company who is liable.

It's very important, with a severe impact like this, that you seek medical attention right now. It may take a few days for you to see how you're going to feel, but you need to get everything on the record right away. And take your time, get all the treatment you need. You can get another guitar, but you've only got one body. Again, the other insurance company is liable.

Don't be in a hurry to settle the insurance claim... if you rush it you will undoubtedly get ripped off. When I was rear-ended (it totaled my car) I didn't settle for almost two years.

Nobody wants to hear this, but you may need to get a lawyer. The other driver's insurance company WILL TRY TO PAY YOU AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE!! And they are very good at taking advantage of amateur negotiators (in other words, you and me).

Best wishes to you and your guitar, and be well!
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Old 10-01-2015, 03:48 PM
3rd_harmonic 3rd_harmonic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Pauhana View Post
The insurance company will demand an estimate from someone with credentials... a known luthier or tech for instance.

And as somebody mentioned, it's the OTHER driver's insurance company who is liable.

It's very important, with a severe impact like this, that you seek medical attention right now. It may take a few days for you to see how you're going to feel, but you need to get everything on the record right away. And take your time, get all the treatment you need. You can get another guitar, but you've only got one body. Again, the other insurance company is liable.

Don't be in a hurry to settle the insurance claim... if you rush it you will undoubtedly get ripped off. When I was rear-ended (it totaled my car) I didn't settle for almost two years.

Nobody wants to hear this, but you may need to get a lawyer. The other driver's insurance company WILL TRY TO PAY YOU AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE!! And they are very good at taking advantage of amateur negotiators (in other words, you and me).

Best wishes to you and your guitar, and be well!
thanks. I agree it can take days or even a week or so for deep injuries to show up. Neck is OK. Headrest was at a good position. I felt the impact mostly in my chest.

both drivers have the same insurance company. My guitar is covered under my homeowners (actually renters) policy. But true.... maybe payment will come from the other drivers policy.
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Old 10-01-2015, 03:53 PM
Uncle Pauhana Uncle Pauhana is offline
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Originally Posted by 3rd_harmonic View Post
both drivers have the same insurance company.
That was my situation too. It's still an adversarial situation, since they want to keep their money right where it is.
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  #10  
Old 10-01-2015, 05:01 PM
3rd_harmonic 3rd_harmonic is offline
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so...... anyone know where I can get an estimate to fix my JM1000 rainsong? I'm thinking a regular guitar repair shop might not be right for carbon.

online or upstate central NY
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Old 10-01-2015, 06:10 PM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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My guess is that only the Rainsong factory can really repair it properly. You might find a decent fiberglass shop near you (think Corvette repair) but they won't know anything about musical instruments.

Call Rainsong and see if they can give you an estimate based on pictures. You might have to send it to them in WA state for a personal viewing, however. Some pics here would help us speculate too.

The odds are decent that the "crack" won't propagate, like it would in wood or a glass windshield. Is the puncture in a place where a strategically mounted pickguard or inlay might hide it?
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  #12  
Old 10-01-2015, 07:05 PM
Jeff Scott Jeff Scott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acousticado View Post
I'm not saying I think CF guitars are impervious and I can understand it happening to one, but two such reports?
CF is certainly not impervious , it just needs impact from the right direction..........................

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Old 10-02-2015, 09:06 AM
Captain Jim Captain Jim is offline
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I think some people believe that carbon fiber is similar to Kevlar. Not so. It isn't affected by climate (like wood), but it isn't "indestructible." In the sailing world, high performance masts are sometimes made of CF, for the shape and lighter weight aloft, but they can break.

No, you can't "whack CF with a hammer" and not expect some damage. It may be less sensitive than some woods to scuffs and dings, but it isn't bulletproof.

I do carry my Shorty in a gig bag, but I handle it with care (I just don't worry about the humidity changes we deal with in our travels).

Jim

Last edited by Captain Jim; 10-02-2015 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 10-02-2015, 09:40 AM
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The first and only call, if it was mine, would be to RainSong. And I would ask for the cost, regardless of whether they feel it is worth it or not, or get it in writing that it can't be repaired and that replacement is the only option. Then get the MAP to replace it, and give them that number. If they wish to source it for a better "street price", so be it.
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Old 10-02-2015, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 3rd_harmonic View Post
so...... anyone know where I can get an estimate to fix my JM1000 rainsong? I'm thinking a regular guitar repair shop might not be right for carbon.

online or upstate central NY
Stutzman's Guitar Center, here in Rochester, New York, is a RainSong dealer and I know they've done refrets on 'Songs. I'll be going there tomorrow, as usual, and I'll ask Dave Stutzman about his ability to do carbon-fiber repair. You can call him at: 585.352.3225 and also visit his website at: http://www.stutzmansguitarcenter.com/index.cfm

Dave may not do carbon-fiber repairs but he may know who does. Of course, contacting RainSong is probably your best bet.

Regards,

Ken
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