John Williams reflects on Segovia - Page 4

Trevor B. · #46 12-31-2013, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redir

I was just about to say the same thing. Nothing new. Having said that I don't understand how anyone could criticize Segovia's abilities and that he lacks emotion in his playing... Really? I think quite the opposite, what he lacks is technical playing for the sake of technical playing, stunt guitar, and that's a good thing imho.

That said, I much prefer listening to Williams, Russell and Bream, as well as several others, play Baroque repertoire and Bach in particular. This rep, because of its contrapuntal nature, demands attention to legato and voice leading that to my ears Segovia did not execute as well in his interpretations.
I also agree with John Williams (I'm paraphrasing here) that a guitar teachers job is not to demand slavish adherence to a particular idiom but rather to help every student find his or her own voice while developing the technique(s) required to play our beloved instrument.
Just as an aside - what an incredible privilege it is to be a part of this (classical guitar) amazing universe!!!!

Paikon · #47 12-31-2013, 12:12 PM

Segovia , Bream and Williams are ancient history.

Check out Stephan Schmidt on Bach and Aniello Desiderio on Scarlati.
Perfection!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQZj2c5cgFc

Dave T · #48 12-31-2013, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paikon

Segovia , Bream and Williams are ancient history.

Check out Stephan Schmidt on Bach and Aniello Desiderio on Scarlati.
Perfection!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQZj2c5cgFc

As a part of "ancient history" I have to disagree. Segovia and Bream are deceased so they are indeed part of the past although their music lives on in a number of excellent recordings, many of which I am fortunate enough to have and to listen to regularly. Williams is very much alive and still performing, and doing so as well as anyone ever has on the classical guitar. Of course there are other brilliant performers but to discount John Williams as ancient history is unworthy and very improper.

Dave

Paikon · #49 12-31-2013, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave T

As a part of "ancient history" I have to disagree. Segovia and Bream are deceased so they are indeed part of the past although their music lives on in a number of excellent recordings, many of which I am fortunate enough to have and to listen to regularly. Williams is very much alive and still performing, and doing so as well as anyone ever has on the classical guitar. Of course there are other brilliant performers but to discount John Williams as ancient history is unworthy and very improper.

Dave

We learn from ancient history of course but there are great performers among us that move the guitar playing forward. That was the point of my comment.

PS John Williams is 72 years old and I wish that he reaches 100 but I don't expect much from him as a guitarist.

Trevor B. · #50 12-31-2013, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave T

As a part of "ancient history" I have to disagree. Segovia and Bream are deceased so they are indeed part of the past although their music lives on in a number of excellent recordings, many of which I am fortunate enough to have and to listen to regularly. Williams is very much alive and still performing, and doing so as well as anyone ever has on the classical guitar. Of course there are other brilliant performers but to discount John Williams as ancient history is unworthy and very improper.

Dave

Hey Dave,
I knew that composer Stephen Dodgson passed away this past April but hadn't heard that Bream had. Do you have any sources you can share re: Bream's passing? If this is true I'll be in mourning for some time. I played the Nocturnal by B. Britten for my ARCT Exam (Royal Conservatory of Music of Toronto) many years ago (yeah, I too am now ancient history, albeit very obscure ancient history, lol). It was Bream's magnificent recording of the Nocturnal that inspired me to learn it.
BTW -Happy New Year to all in this thread and on the AGF.

Trevor B. · #51 12-31-2013, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paikon

Segovia , Bream and Williams are ancient history.

Check out Stephan Schmidt on Bach and Aniello Desiderio on Scarlati.
Perfection!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQZj2c5cgFc

Both of the guitarists you reference are fine players and your point about "moving forward" is well taken. I don't believe, however; these points negate the wonderful and lasting contributions that Segovia, Bream, Williams and so many more I don't have room to mention them all, have made to our art. By all means let's support the young up and comers while still respecting the traditions and legacy that are, after all, the foundation upon which the present generation is building.
BTW - Thanks for the youtube link to Stephan Schmidt. I really enjoyed his performance of the PFA.

Dogsnax · #52 12-31-2013, 02:06 PM

Julian Bream is still alive, enjoying retirement.

And Paikon, on of my most treasured CDs is Stephan Schmidt's "Bach Lute Works". Arguably the finest Bach guitar recording to date.

Dave T · #53 12-31-2013, 03:13 PM

My mistake and my apologies to Mr. Bream. I had read (on the internet…I should have known better) that he had passed away not long after he retired. I wish him a long and comfortable retirement. He is not performing anymore so that does draw a distinction between him and Williams.

Dave

Paikon · #54 12-31-2013, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor B.

Both of the guitarists you reference are fine players and your point about "moving forward" is well taken. I don't believe, however; these points negate the wonderful and lasting contributions that Segovia, Bream, Williams and so many more I don't have room to mention them all, have made to our art. By all means let's support the young up and comers while still respecting the traditions and legacy that are, after all, the foundation upon which the present generation is building.
BTW - Thanks for the youtube link to Stephan Schmidt. I really enjoyed his performance of the PFA.

We don't disagree...maybe the way I use the English language confuses things

jimmy bookout · #55 12-31-2013, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paikon

Segovia , Bream and Williams are ancient history.

Check out Stephan Schmidt on Bach and Aniello Desiderio on Scarlati.
Perfection!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQZj2c5cgFc

I appreciate that English is your second language but....ancient history?
These 3 guitarists are vitally important today and will be long into the future for their contributions.

Jimmy

Paikon · #56 12-31-2013, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmy bookout

I appreciate that English is your second language but....ancient history?
These 3 guitarists are vitally important today and will be long into the future for their contributions.

Jimmy

The contribution of these guitar monsters is not questioned at least by me...read my previous comments on this thread.

My objection is that some people want to compare guitarists of different generations...its not right.

Paikon · #57 12-31-2013, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogsnax

And Paikon, on of my most treasured CDs is Stephan Schmidt's "Bach Lute Works". Arguably the finest Bach guitar recording to date.

I think so too!!

scottishrogue · #58 12-31-2013, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogsnax

Glen, you and I are constantly in disagreement and on this topic (Hendrix), nothing has changed. Happy New Year and I look forward to disagreeing with you in 2014....

.Fred

Fred, I also look forward to more discussion on any number of topics, and I wish you and yours a Happy (& prosperous) New Year!

I'm betting we agree on a great number of topics. Perhaps Ana Vidovic or Sharon Isbin?

Glen

Peter Lovett · #59 01-01-2014, 10:42 PM

To get back to the topic, the criticism of Segovia by Williams was that he stifled his students by forcing them to play works in the same manner that he would play them. At this level students are not there to learn technique but musical interpretation and the "my way or the highway" approach is not conducive to learning.

By way of example consider the approach of the still very much alive Julian Bream in his masterclasses.

Julian Bream Masterclass 1978

This, I suggest, is an approach where one is far more likely to learn.

Incidentally, having read the Williams biography, he credits learning far more from his father than Segovia and at the Academy in Sienna, he credits learning far more from the other students as well as Alirio Diaz who was the assistant teacher.

Don't forget though that at the time Williams studied with Segovia, the latter was the true star of classical guitar. He was the man who dragged the instrument out of the parlours and salons of the minor venues and onto the stages of the worlds leading performance venues as well as forcing the guitar to be considered as a serious performance instrument. It is no wonder that Williams's father, Len, wanted his son to study with Segovia as had Bream's father, Henry, approximately a decade earlier but was thwarted due to lack of money to travel to Spain.

Paikon · #60 01-02-2014, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Lovett

To get back to the topic, the criticism of Segovia by Williams was that he stifled his students by forcing them to play works in the same manner that he would play them. At this level students are not there to learn technique but musical interpretation and the "my way or the highway" approach is not conducive to learning.

.

..Segovia talks about interpretation not technique!