James May Ultra Tonic/Tone Dexter Demo

[AeroUSA]

I recorded a video with my iPhone yesterday of the Ultra Tonic Pickup with Tone Dexter. I feel the TD works best with SBT's as they have a more natural sound that UST's.

I think this is the best live sound I have ever had. The TD was on a slight blend but then I changed the K8.2 preset to Vocals/Guitar which removed some of the excess based caused by the speaker being in the corner for the room and I used the TD blend on focus 1 and added a 2db treble boost from the TD.

[Groberts]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Well that was good timing! Last night I was listening to Dazzo demos online and I started to worry about how they would match with the Tonedexter. I definitely hear that lively characteristic.

I feel like the K&K would probably make the most sense. I don't love the superglue method but it is a fairly easy install with pretty consistent results.

Doug, I forgot to ask as well.. I know you use the Dazzo, Barbera Soloist, Amulet and you have some guitars with the K&K in them. Which pickup do you find works the best with the Tonedexter/provides the best overall wavemap?

You have a ToneDexter and it is well regarded in terms of working famously with the K&K. I understand due diligence and respect it. I do the same. At some point however, I think we get lost in paralysis by analysis and become chronic fence sitters in search of the 'perfect' solution. The thing is, none of them are perfect. There is always some degree of compromise. I think the K&K and Tonedexter makes the most sense and is the least invasive. The K&K is also one of the least expensive SBT's, easy to be found, easy to install. My vote is to go with the K&K and get a new saddle made for your guitar (based on our private PM's).

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Groberts

You have a ToneDexter and it is well regarded in terms of working famously with the K&K. I understand due diligence and respect it. I do the same. At some point however, I think we get lost in paralysis by analysis and become chronic fence sitters in search of the 'perfect' solution. The thing is, none of them are perfect. There is always some degree of compromise. I think the K&K and Tonedexter makes the most sense and is the least invasive. The K&K is also one of the least expensive SBT's, easy to be found, easy to install. My vote is to go with the K&K and get a new saddle made for your guitar (based on our private PM's).

Agreed. I have decided to play around with the Amulet a bit.. I am stubborn that way. However, if I can't get it to work, I am going to try the K&K. I am going to give Gary at Trance Audio a call just to see if he has some suggestions. I tried the clamp approach where you lightly clamp the transducer, put the E string on to pitch and plug in the guitar. From there you can move the clamp to find the desired pressure point. However, I was getting a lot of feedback so I stopped. This time I might pay more attention to this step. Who knows, maybe one of the transducers does not have good enough contact.

[Tapping]

..oops dulpicate

[Tapping]

As you know, James May, my guitar is in the shop to install my first UT and I do use the TD. I'm curious, since the TD has smart multi-frequency anti-feedback based on % of engagement across all of my guitar's high frequencies, might that dictate how I set the switches on the UT? I do love my bass on my often down-tuned jumbo. I would think that I'd err on the side of more bass (less counter bass) from the UT's bass crystal and allow the TD to engage as needed to pick up the slack. Thoughts, James?

[James May]

Old thread! I guess I've been selling the Ultra Tonic for awhile now.

My thoughts are this: Even if you love lots of bass, you don't want excessive low end resonances to muddy up the bottom and cause feedback. The amount of this will vary dramatically from instrument to instrument. The more flexible and resonant the top, the more of this issue you're going to have.

Yes, ToneDexter can tame those low end hot spots that the mic gives you, relative to the pickup. But it can't take them down below what the pickup has to start with.

So for that reason, I believe an Ultra Tonic will always work better than a K&K. If you are worried that you won't have enough bass with the Ultra Tonic, you can adjust how much of the anti-feedback sensor you mix in. All the way from too much to not enough.

[tadol]

Originally Posted by James May

If you are worried that you won't have enough bass with the Ultra Tonic, you can adjust how much of the anti-feedback sensor you mix in. All the way from too much to not enough.

I’m a BIG fan of just right! And it’s pretty darn easy to get it -

[SpruceTop]

I've got two self-installed UltraTonic 3.2 systems in my dreadnought guitars, a Martin D-18 and a Larrivee D-03, and once adjusted, I hear them as sounding Mighty Fine! Although I've also got a ToneDexter I haven't tried the UltraTonic 3.2 systems with it as of yet.

[fwphoto]

Originally Posted by James May

Old thread! I guess I've been selling the Ultra Tonic for awhile now.

Since it is an old thread you might want to update it a bit with any changes in the Ultra Tonic since it was started around 4 years ago. I know you aren't using discs as mentioned earlier as it's now more of a strip of piezo with 1 disc for feedback info. Right?

Have there been any other changes since the introduction of the original Ultra Tonic?

Frank

[Tapping]

Originally Posted by James May

Yes, ToneDexter can tame those low end hot spots that the mic gives you, relative to the pickup. But it can't take them down below what the pickup has to start with.

James, so does that mean that the TD Notch only addresses frequencies on the wavemaped ch 02 and not on the pickup channel 00 and 01?

[James May]

Originally Posted by Tapping

James, so does that mean that the TD Notch only addresses frequencies on the wavemaped ch 02 and not on the pickup channel 00 and 01?

I'm not quite sure what your channel references are too.

The smart notch control on ToneDexter is very useful, but it has limits. Here are some points to help clarify:
• ToneDexter hears the difference between the pickup and the mic’d up guitar.
• In almost all cases the mic hears more of the troublesome low end resonances that can cause feedback than the pickup does.
• Therefore, the WaveMap that is created will add those resonances to your pickup sound. You want most of these, it’s what makes the guitar sound like a guitar. But the low ones can be problematic. The smart feedback control will allow you to dial out as much of those as needed, to avoid feedback.
• In the case of an UST, it has very few of the resonances, so ToneDexter will allow you dial out all the extra low-end resonance that the mic adds, all the way back to the flat low-end pickup sound.
• In the case of a K&K, there are usually too much of the low end resonances in the pickup sound to start with. A WaveMap will clean this up to some degree, and totally transform the sound into something very close to the mic. In this case it won’t add as much of those low-end resonances, depending of course on mic position.
• However, ToneDexter’s smart feedback control can only take out the ‘extra’ stuff that the mic heard during training. It can’t take out more than that. At least with the current software.
• In the case of an Ultra Tonic, if properly adjusted, you won’t have too much to start with. Then, ToneDexter can work its mic magic and the smart feedback control will be optimum for all situations.

[Tapping]

I meant the ch 0, 1, 2 that shows when moving the Character knob. I think you answered the main question.

I understand that the TD Notch takes-out only from what the mic put in to the wavemap, and doesn't make the pick-up only signal better. So, if I don't take-out enough high resonance bass frequencies with the UT dip switches, the TD notch won't be able to remove them later and I'll still have feedback.

Thanks a ton.

[Gordon Currie]

Originally Posted by Tapping

I meant the ch 0, 1, 2 that shows when moving the Character knob.

CH stands for Character, not Channel.

[tadol]

Originally Posted by Tapping

I understand that the TD Notch takes-out only from what the mic put in to the wavemap, and doesn't make the pick-up only signal better. So, if I don't take-out enough high resonance bass frequencies with the UT dip switches, the TD notch won't be able to remove them later and I'll still have feedback.

Thanks a ton.

Maybe you’re confused - you can’t make the pickup signal better - the pickup signal is what it is. If you’re getting a crap signal, you need to change the installation, or change the pickup -

The UT dip switch setting is actually quite easy, and getting a good bass signal without feedback hasn’t been a problem. So, maybe I’m confused? Are you saying you want feedback from your pickup, and use a wavemap or a notch to eliminate it? Maybe there’s a way to make a wavemap with feedback in it?

[Tapping]

I had the Ultra Installed installed in my Breedlove and I'm quite amazed. The sound is rich, woody, fast, balanced and tons of feedback resistance even at DIP 10-- everything James May claims. I loved it all by itself. But, I couldn't stop there. Adding the Tone Dexter smooths it out and adds control from punchy and focused to mellow and all sorts of blends plus whatever you can manufacture with microphone choices and methods. It's better than 'acoustic but louder.' It's just plainly awesome!! I am outrageously satisfied, motivated to play more, and love how it sounds. Ahhhhhh delight!!!!