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  #121  
Old 01-03-2018, 12:41 PM
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Doug Young Doug Young is offline
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Originally Posted by varmonter View Post
i have a stereo matched pair of mxl603.
condensor mics. i am thinking of running
these through my unpowered mackie board
into the tonedexter. any reason i shouldn't
try this?
There's no reason not to try anything, you never know. But generally, mixing 2 mics to mono causes phase cancellation. For recording or live performance, this usually isn't desirable. Whether it will produce good results with tonedexter is hard to predict. From what I can tell, TD doesn't necessarily want or need a traditional good recording. The recommended mic positions are not where I would place mics to make a good sounding recording, but they work well for TD. So more mics may not be better, unless it is :-)
  #122  
Old 01-03-2018, 09:36 PM
ceciltguitar ceciltguitar is online now
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I received my ToneDexter last week and finally had some time to dedicate to making wave maps on New Years Day.

I knew that my son had a good microphone, and I kept asking him if I could borrow it. Then he gave it to me for Christmas. What's mine is his, what's his is mine.....It is an AKG something. It says "perception 400" on the mic. For all training / wave map creation I placed the mic about 6 - 8 inches from the sound hole, pointed at the sound hole.

First up was my wife's Taylor 2002 312 CE. I was drop dead astounded at how much the resulting sound was just like the acoustic sound of the Taylor!

Next, I tried her new Emerald X-7 with a K&K mini pickup. A lot of people rave over the sound of the amplified X-7 with K&K pickup, but we have not been happy with the amplified sound of the X-7 - which was my main justification for buying the TD. I tried creating an X-7 wave map, and I also tried using the Taylor wave map while playing the X-7 through the TD. I like the un-plugged acoustic sound of the X-7. I am a fan of big Alistair's work: He is amazingly artistic, he is constantly upping standard for carbon fiber lutherie, he is very easy to work with, and he will customize any specs that you give him! My wife, Rose, does not care for the sound of the X-7. I bought her the X-7 because it is short scale and extremely light and ergonomic, which she really likes and appreciates. But she loves the sound of her Taylor!

Next up was my Cordoba GK Pro. Again, I found faithful reproduction of the unplugged sound of the GK Pro using the TD wave map.

Ditto my Emerald X-10 custom nylon string guitar - faithful reproduction of the unplugged sound using the TD wave map.

I wanted to make a wave map of my 1982 Khono Sakurai, and I was very disappointed that the old early 1990s L.R. Baggs dual source pickup system installed in the Sakurai has apparently given up the ghost. This guitar was a gig workhorse for me through the 90s, but I don't remember when I last tried to plug it in. Yes, I did replace the battery first, but still nothing. I am ordering a Fishman SBT just because I want to get a TD wave map of this guitar.

Finally, I plugged in my late 90s Takamine Santa Fe nylon string guitar. For the nylon string guitars, I was the happiest with this wave map.

Next I tried making a wave map with the Takamine using the Shure SM58 Beta microphone that Rose uses to sing through at our gigs. The sound volume of the resulting wave map was greatly reduced compared to the wave map created using the AKG mic, and IMHO the sound quality of the wave map using the SM58 was not as good as the wave map using the AKG mic.

The second reason that I bought the TD, and what I will probably use it for, was to try to get a genuine classical guitar sound out of my 1999 Parker Spanish Fly. The Fly has custom RMC pickups in it, which was a huge improvement in the sound over the Fishman UST that came with the guitar, but there is still piezo quack even with the RMC pickups. I am happy enough with the sound of the Parker Fly using the TD Takamine wave map that now I want to make wave maps using the best classical guitar with a UST or SBT that I can find! For me, right now, that is my Sakurai. But maybe I can persuade someone to let me borrow their Damann and put an SBT on it...........right.......

Anyway, I have not gigged with the TD yet and I am just in the preliminary beginning stage of getting to know this device. My initial impression of the TD is that it is a very powerful break-through addition to the armamentarium available to instrumentalists in terms of seeking closer-to-true-reproduction of genuine acoustic sound.

Has anyone tried making wave maps with the TD with mic placement further away, say 2, 4 or 6 feet away?

That's my preliminary "report from the field" from an old ex-weekend warrior with absolutely NO sound engineering credentials. YMMV.
  #123  
Old 01-04-2018, 01:55 AM
roelioo roelioo is offline
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Hey Ceciltguitar,

I don't understand. I have a taylor 814Ce with the Es1 systeem.
James May told me: Than ES1 system is magnetic and does not work well with ToneDexter.
How did you use the Td with the 314?
  #124  
Old 01-04-2018, 10:39 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roelioo View Post
Hey Ceciltguitar,

I don't understand. I have a taylor 814Ce with the Es1 systeem.
James May told me: Than ES1 system is magnetic and does not work well with ToneDexter.
How did you use the Td with the 314?
A quick check with Wiki says the ES system was introduced in 2004. Its likely that Ceciltguitar's wife's 2002 Taylor 312ce is Fishman Prefix equipped.
  #125  
Old 01-04-2018, 10:58 AM
AeroUSA AeroUSA is offline
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Yes and it works well with the Fishman undersaddles.
  #126  
Old 01-04-2018, 07:41 PM
ceciltguitar ceciltguitar is online now
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The electronics package on Rose's Taylor says "Taylor Prefix" on it.
  #127  
Old 01-07-2018, 01:34 AM
varmonter varmonter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varmonter View Post
Well my first outing fell somewhat shy of
my expectations. All 8 wavemaps seemed
A bit tinny to me .. quite jangly. Although
Not bad enough to not use the thing
last night. I used the KK pup ..the sunrise didn't sound good.I am thinking perhaps an investment
In better headphones might improve my mic
Placement. If not tonedexter may be in the agf
Classifieds soon.. h
played tonight at a local ski area. club was
a restaurant/bar full of ski tourists(maybe 75 folks) and some
locals. this time the TD showed more promise.
i think a may keep it after all . i tweaked the
eq a bit and was able to tone it down a bit.
interesting bit of kit. as they say across the pond.
  #128  
Old 01-07-2018, 07:29 AM
AeroUSA AeroUSA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varmonter View Post
played tonight at a local ski area. club was
a restaurant/bar full of ski tourists(maybe 75 folks) and some
locals. this time the TD showed more promise.
i think a may keep it after all . i tweaked the
eq a bit and was able to tone it down a bit.
interesting bit of kit. as they say across the pond.
Did you redo your maps and if so how?
  #129  
Old 01-07-2018, 08:28 AM
varmonter varmonter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroUSA View Post
Did you redo your maps and if so how?
I did not redo i just played with the TD eq. and
is it "charecter" knob. i've been busy here in the
frozen north -23 below last night without wind chill
they say it was -45 with wind. And my furnace is limping..but i am going
to try some more. i have an at4040 condensor i want
to try and i have to build a mandolin wavemap
as well before the band plays next week.

Last edited by varmonter; 01-07-2018 at 08:45 AM.
  #130  
Old 05-24-2018, 08:27 PM
The Kid! The Kid! is offline
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I just pulled the trigger on a Tonedexter. I'm hoping it will work for me.

I have a Fishman Prefix Premium Blend pickup that has a piezo and an internal mic on the gooseneck. I'm assuming that should only use the piezo and an external mic while in training mode.

Potential issue 1:The pickup has EQ controls, and I'm not sure where they should be set for training.

Potential issue 2: I use a Boss OC3 for basslines. Will the wavemap signal mess up my ability to do this, and should I keep it out of the loop of the tonedexter?

Potential issue 3: I run my entire board through the FX loop of my Red Eye Preamp and the website shows that I should run pedals through the Tonedexter FX loop.

My signal chain now is: Guitar > Red Eye > Mixing board.

In the red eye loop is TC Electonics Harmony Singer > Boss OC 3 > Aphex Acoustic Xciter > Boomerang III Looper.

I'm not sure what the routing should be with this new setup.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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  #131  
Old 05-25-2018, 10:50 AM
ceciltguitar ceciltguitar is online now
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You might want to copy & paste your post as a pm to James May. He is generally very knowledgeable & helpful but in regards to all things ToneDexter.
  #132  
Old 05-25-2018, 12:24 PM
The Kid! The Kid! is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceciltguitar View Post
You might want to copy & paste your post as a pm to James May. He is generally very knowledgeable & helpful but in regards to all things ToneDexter.
Thank you!
  #133  
Old 05-25-2018, 12:53 PM
RogerPease RogerPease is offline
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Hi, Kid.

James May is definitely the man for all things Tonedexter so that's a good idea.

But your post got me wondering. I assume what you're thinking is to replace the
Red-Eye with the Tonedexter and you're wondering if it will work the same way
in particular for the effects in the loop.

I took a look at the functional block diagram on the support page of the
audiosprockets.com site and, yes, the effects loop is after the "dexter-izer".
Only the guitar input is processed. Nothing special happens in the effects loop,
just as it should be.

Although where you'll physically fit the new TD on the board in your picture I
have no idea!! You're on your own there, dude! :-) :-)

_Roger
  #134  
Old 05-25-2018, 01:17 PM
Gordon Currie Gordon Currie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kid! View Post
I just pulled the trigger on a Tonedexter. I'm hoping it will work for me.

I have a Fishman Prefix Premium Blend pickup that has a piezo and an internal mic on the gooseneck. I'm assuming that should only use the piezo and an external mic while in training mode.
Precisely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kid! View Post
Potential issue 1:The pickup has EQ controls, and I'm not sure where they should be set for training.
You want flat, no EQ. If it is a cut and boost EQ, that is generally 12 o clock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kid! View Post
Potential issue 2: I use a Boss OC3 for basslines. Will the wavemap signal mess up my ability to do this, and should I keep it out of the loop of the tonedexter?
No need, the loop carries the 'reconstituted' signal and the OC3 should merely see a *better quality* signal. (You never actually hear the WaveMap, it is used internally to dynamically process the incoming piezo signal.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kid! View Post
Potential issue 3: I run my entire board through the FX loop of my Red Eye Preamp and the website shows that I should run pedals through the Tonedexter FX loop.

My signal chain now is: Guitar > Red Eye > Mixing board.

In the red eye loop is TC Electonics Harmony Singer > Boss OC 3 > Aphex Acoustic Xciter > Boomerang III Looper.

I'm not sure what the routing should be with this new setup.
I'd look at replacing the Red Eye and loop with the ToneDexter and loop. All of the Red-Eye's functionality is handled by the ToneDexter (including any impedance matching). Unless the Red-Eye EQ is superior, if you like the TD, you may end up selling the Red-Eye.
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  #135  
Old 05-25-2018, 01:34 PM
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So you are creating a sound model by a different name? Is that what mapping is. I can't imagine what else it'd be. I believe some Fishman models have that option.
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