New TONEDEXTER Video !!!

[midwinter]

That's exactly what I'm thinking. Guitar, mando, octave and banjo all in one box. But can you not save EQ presets? That would be a deal-breaker for me. If it saves everything in presets, then I could replace my whole rig with one box

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Sounds pretty awesome but it is pricey. I like how you can save presets for various instruments. This could be the only DI/preamp that I would need with my acoustic, mandolin and octave mandolin. My only concern would be figuring out the eq for each instrument when I switch from one to the other.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by midwinter

That's exactly what I'm thinking. Guitar, mando, octave and banjo all in one box. But can you not save EQ presets? That would be a deal-breaker for me. If it saves everything in presets, then I could replace my whole rig with one box

I am honestly not sure as I haven't researched this unit enough. I just assumed that the presets were simply for saving the mic/images and not the eq settings. It would be cool to have an all in one unit though. I just wonder how FOH sound men would like dealing with just on DI?

[midwinter]

No kidding. I played a job a few weeks ago opening for an Americana band where everyone played 2-3 instruments and none of them shared. The FOH guy put out 10 DIs.

He looked at me and said "Is it just you and a guitar?" I said "Um, it's a guitar, a banjo, and an octave mandolin." He hung his head in despair. I said "Hang on! I'm gonna make your life easier," and showed him my sub-mixing rig.

He said "So you only need a mic and one line out to FOH? I love you."

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I am honestly not sure as I haven't researched this unit enough. I just assumed that the presets were simply for saving the mic/images and not the eq settings. It would be cool to have an all in one unit though. I just wonder how FOH sound men would like dealing with just on DI?

[James May]

Originally Posted by Vancebo

Okay, here is my question being asked again. Again, I ask why is this so? Mr. May, this is directed at you. Please inform us. I just want to understand the technology a little better.

I'll try to explain why pickups that have some elements out of phase with other elements don't work with our technology.

ToneDexter creates transformation from one signal, "the pickup", into another signal, "the mic". It hears both signals during training, and figures out how to get from A to B mathematically. This is a complex transform that encompasses both frequency and time, or magnitude and phase.

So far so good. Now suppose the pickup has 6 individual elements and every other one is out of phase. When you play a G on the 5th fret of the D string, it will have the opposite phase of playing the open G string right next to it. Of course, the strings are never perfectly in tune and you can't play them exactly the same time, so audibly, the sound does not appear to cancel out (although with careful observation you will hear some artifacts).

But, since our system is looking at frequency and phase and it only has one pickup input, it can't possibly know which string, or where in general, that frequency came from. All it knows is that sometimes the G frequency has one phase, and sometimes it has the opposite phase (polarity), and hence will get confused and not train properly.

To put it another way, the system assumes a coherent source for both the pickup and mic signals. With multi element pickups that are in phase, and of course for single element pickups, the source is coherent enough not to be a an issue.

[James May]

Originally Posted by midwinter

That's exactly what I'm thinking. Guitar, mando, octave and banjo all in one box. But can you not save EQ presets? That would be a deal-breaker for me. If it saves everything in presets, then I could replace my whole rig with one box

Yes, you can save a unique 3-band parametric EQ setting along with each stored preset. It will get recalled automatically. But what's really cool is that the audio will also be subject to the 3 band parametric controls AGAIN, for live tweaking of the sound to accommodate the room you're in. So you actually have two cascaded 3 band parametric EQs at the same time: one stored and one live. And when the EQ controls are at the center detent off position, the LEDs go off and the EQ is bypassed.

And, last but not least, the EQ settings that are stored are non-destructive to the stored WaveMap. They can be edited/tweaked later as many times as necessary, and do not alter the core WaveMap.

All that being said, what we have found is that you almost don't need EQ any more, and certainly not to fix the sound of your pickup. The WaveMap does that for you!

[James May]

Originally Posted by urlkonig

James -- what are the feedback characteristics when used with the Lyric at "moderate to loud" volume?

Better than with just the pure Lyric, for sure. But not as good as using a K&K sound board pickup, which has much better feedback immunity. The motivation for using a microphone pickup like the Lyric totally evaporates when you have a ToneDexter that can properly fix the sound of a piezo SBT or UST.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by James May

Better than with just the pure Lyric, for sure. But not as good as using a K&K sound board pickup, which has much better feedback immunity. The motivation for using a microphone pickup like the Lyric totally evaporates when you have a ToneDexter that can properly fix the sound of a piezo SBT or UST.

In that case, I'm thinking that a non-phase cancelling hex pickup, like my old Baggs Hex or the Graph Tech Hex, might be the good pickup to use with ToneDexter. You'd get all the advantages of a hex (even volume balance, good string separation, low feedback susceptibility) along with a mic-like tone. The only downside would be its poorer (than an SBT or mic) response to tapping.

I really like the fact that up to sixteen WaveMaps can be created. That's way more than enough to handle my instrument collection.

My only question, at this point, is whether it can handle passive piezo pickups which require considerably more (for optimum operation) than the 1 Mohm input impedance which is ideal for the K&K Mini Pure.

[Vancebo]

Originally Posted by James May

I'll try to explain why pickups that have some elements out of phase with other elements don't work with our technology.

ToneDexter creates transformation from one signal, "the pickup", into another signal, "the mic". It hears both signals during training, and figures out how to get from A to B mathematically. This is a complex transform that encompasses both frequency and time, or magnitude and phase.

So far so good. Now suppose the pickup has 6 individual elements and every other one is out of phase. When you play a G on the 5th fret of the D string, it will have the opposite phase of playing the open G string right next to it. Of course, the strings are never perfectly in tune and you can't play them exactly the same time, so audibly, the sound does not appear to cancel out (although with careful observation you will hear some artifacts).

But, since our system is looking at frequency and phase and it only has one pickup input, it can't possibly know which string, or where in general, that frequency came from. All it knows is that sometimes the G frequency has one phase, and sometimes it has the opposite phase (polarity), and hence will get confused and not train properly.

To put it another way, the system assumes a coherent source for both the pickup and mic signals. With multi element pickups that are in phase, and of course for single element pickups, the source is coherent enough not to be a an issue.

Thanks so much. That actually makes sense to my simple brain.

[James May]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

My only question, at this point, is whether it can handle passive piezo pickups which require considerably more (for optimum operation) than the 1 Mohm input impedance which is ideal for the K&K Mini Pure.

We have a high enough input impedance to support all types. By "optimum operation" I believe you are referring to getting the "optimum" amount of low end from the passive piezo, and that does vary from type to type in traditional preamp systems. But with ToneDexter present to correct the pickup's response and make it match what the mic hears, the need to match a particular pickup with a particular impedance totally goes away (so long as the impedance is high enough, which it is).

[urlkonig]

Originally Posted by James May

Better than with just the pure Lyric, for sure. But not as good as using a K&K sound board pickup, which has much better feedback immunity. The motivation for using a microphone pickup like the Lyric totally evaporates when you have a ToneDexter that can properly fix the sound of a piezo SBT or UST.

Thank you -- I've never been happy with K&Ks on their own -- but if I can avoid using a UST and use the K&Ks as a compatible signal source for the ToneDexter, that makes them viable for me. I remember them being fairly hot without an onboard preamp -- will they work passively with the ToneDexter, or do they need to be preamped?

[James May]

Originally Posted by urlkonig

Thank you -- I've never been happy with K&Ks on their own -- but if I can avoid using a UST and use the K&Ks as a compatible signal source for the ToneDexter, that makes them viable for me. I remember them being fairly hot without an onboard preamp -- will they work passively with the ToneDexter, or do they need to be preamped?

The combination of K&K plus ToneDexter is unbeatable for typical needs and tastes (including my own), but other pickups can be just as good. No additional preamp is needed using ToneDexter. That goes for other passive pickups as well. Of course, active systems that already have a preamp will work too.

[NoodleFingers]

Mr. May, you have a fascinating device. And anyone who has gone through the process of trying to find a suitable "image" from the Fishman Aura system when there is no good match in their set can appreciate being able to use their own guitar, pickup and microphone.

I just got a new Rainsong (sans pickup), and I'm thinking about putting a Dazzo in it. Have you tried the Tonedexter with either carbon fiber guitars or Dazzo pickups?

[James May]

Originally Posted by NoodleFingers

Mr. May, you have a fascinating device. And anyone who has gone through the process of trying to find a suitable "image" from the Fishman Aura system when there is no good match in their set can appreciate being able to use their own guitar, pickup and microphone.

I just got a new Rainsong (sans pickup), and I'm thinking about putting a Dazzo in it. Have you tried the Tonedexter with either carbon fiber guitars or Dazzo pickups?

We have not tried carbon fiber guitars yet, but there is no reason they won't work well. The sound of the guitar is what you'll get. We have not tried the Dazzo, but because it is a contact piezo, it should work very well with ToneDexter.

[midwinter]

OMG. Will you marry me?

You just simplified my live rig enormously.

Originally Posted by James May

Yes, you can save a unique 3-band parametric EQ setting along with each stored preset. It will get recalled automatically. But what's really cool is that the audio will also be subject to the 3 band parametric controls AGAIN, for live tweaking of the sound to accommodate the room you're in. So you actually have two cascaded 3 band parametric EQs at the same time: one stored and one live. And when the EQ controls are at the center detent off position, the LEDs go off and the EQ is bypassed.

And, last but not least, the EQ settings that are stored are non-destructive to the stored WaveMap. They can be edited/tweaked later as many times as necessary, and do not alter the core WaveMap.

All that being said, what we have found is that you almost don't need EQ any more, and certainly not to fix the sound of your pickup. The WaveMap does that for you!

[NoodleFingers]

Originally Posted by James May

We have not tried carbon fiber guitars yet, but there is no reason they won't work well. The sound of the guitar is what you'll get. We have not tried the Dazzo, but because it is a contact piezo, it should work very well with ToneDexter.

Thanks very much. One more question... will there be any way to update the firmware if you refine your transformation algorithm?