Need Help Selecting a Mic

[sn4p3]

Hey all,

I am a newbie to recording. I recently am doing some work with a friend of mine (singer) and I am going to start recording some acoustic guitar tracks for her.

I might use some other acoustic instruments for other tracks (mandolin). What microphone works best.

So far, the only option I have is a cable that plugs into my acoustic guitar (it's an acoustic/electric) and a USB on the other end, so I can record directly into my cpu, by passing the terrible built in mic on my lap top. However, I cannot benefit from this when I record my mandolin, so I am looking for a decent, yet cheap mic to record with. Given my tight budget, and the fact that I need just a modest improvement in comparison to my laptop mic, here is what I am looking at:

Blue microphone The Yeti ($150)
I like the fact that it is plug and play. I have seen some videos on youtube and the quality is about on par with what I am looking for.

Shure SM57 ($100)
The workhorse. It seems like no matter what, you cannot go wrong with this mic. Even years down the road, if I end up getting better equipment, it seems that people always find ways to still use this.

EV Cobalt Co4 Instrument Mic ($70 for two microphones)
I like the fact that there are two of them (so I can record in stereo and also experiment with microphone placements). It sounds like it is pretty good for acoustic instruments.

MXL 4000 FET Studio Condenser Mic + MXL 603S Condenser Mic ($200)
I heard great things about the MXL 4000, but don't know how well it will work recording acoustic instruments, and how well it will work in conjuction with the extra MXL 603S mic.

Is there a clear winner here? If I had to rank them, I think I would go:

1) Cobalt (cheapest, there are two, better than laptop mic)
2) Shure (great quality, decent price, but only 1 mic )
3)MXL 4000 FET (good reviews about it being a good mic for the price. Extra mic is a bonus).
4) Yetti (more expensive, and limits my options on how I use it (only recording via USB).

What do you guys think? I am really new to this, and need some help. THANKS!

[runamuck]

Get the Shure; it won't end up in the trash.

[RogerC]

You'll want to get a condenser mic, which the SM57 is not. As a general rule, to get the best acoustic sounds, you do not want to use a dynamic mic. I'd rule out the Shure. Yes it's tough, but not desgned for what you are wanting to accomplish.

[las]

cant go wrong with an rode nt1 as a starting point...

jim

[anton]

Do you have an interface to plug the mic into? I couldnt tell that from your post. If not there are a lot of simple two channel usb or firewire interfaces out there for a few hundred bucks.

I would shoot for two mic inputs, so you can eventually record in stereo.

http://www.sweetwater.com/c695--USB_Audio_Interfaces
http://www.sweetwater.com/c683--Fire...dio_Interfaces

I have heard good things about this.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FireStuMobile


As far as mics, I might look at the CAD M179. You can get them cheap on Ebay, the one I have used seemed to work well. The Audio Technica 2020 is another budget option. I think they have a mic package similar to the MXL one you mentioned. And I would definitely go with a condenser, as others mentioned.

If you want something to record instruments and vocals with I would stay away from the USB plug and play mics that go directly into your computer. Save your bucks, get a small interface, and a separate mic. It will serve you better in the long run.


Anton

[alohachris]

Aloha,

+1 on CAD M179. I agree with Anton - the M179 is cheap, provides multiple mic patterns, is a good condenser (better than a dynamic 57) and can also double as a vocal recording mic if you decide to do so.

Traditionally, for recording, the best results are achieved by using a matched pair of small diaphragm condenser mics. I keep returning from experiments to this configuration and always get the best results with two S/D condensers, But that's probably outside your budget right now.

Check out pairs of the Oktava MK-012 (fantastic for the $) & other budget but good mics, and start saving. Check out used mics at Gearslutz & Craigslist. There's a nice, used pair of Rode NT-5's for sale on GS right now for just $325.

But for what you are looking for right now? Try out the CAD M179 - and as many others as you can at music stores. Let your ears decide.

BTW, there was a decent discussion here recently about budget recording mic's started by Cue Zephyr you might want to check out too. He has one MC-012 and the CAD and is getting good results.

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=190529

And yes, most of the ones you list would end up in the trash (not the 57), sooner rather than later. I mean, you could get a used AKG 535, a great condenser mic for guitar or vocals, for $150 used - look at the AKG line too - but not the 1000C though - the only AKG that isn't very good. I'd go that route before investing in most MXL's (not a fan myself).

However, our friend Ty Ford, who has great ears for great acoustic guitar mics (check out his site & samples), highly recommends this MXL:

http://www.pssl.com/MXL-SP1-Condense...hone-With-Clip

He says it "sounds like a $500-600 mic and costs just $49." Maybe a pair of these would be the ticket for two-channel, stereo recording.

Check 'em all out - with your ears!

And get a decent interface. If you're using a Mac, save up for an Apogee Duet. Those mic pre's will make a huge difference to your sound.

Another approach would be to buy something like a Zoom H-1 or 2 recorder and link up to your computer. Lotta value in that approach too and cheap.

Good Luck!
alohachris

[jgillard]

I just purchased a Blue Yeti microphone since I wanted something easy to use without breaking the bank.

Here is a recording I just did.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...songID=9702499

[moon]

Sounds like there's a nice guitar in there.

I can hear a kind of "wobble" in the background (in the hi-fi sample). It reminds me a bit of the artefacts you hear in a low-quality youtube clip although much less pronounced.

[JijGaat]

I have to agree with the others, getting a decent audio interface is priority #1.

[jgillard]

I can hear a kind of "wobble" in the background (in the hi-fi sample). It reminds me a bit of the artefacts you hear in a low-quality youtube clip although much less pronounced.

It's probably something I am doing wrong!

[Quinny]

Im thinking of purchasing the following package to get me started with recording on my computer. Would the mic that is included be good enough for recording?

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...age?sku=485736

[alohachris]

Quinny,

I suggest you go to a music store and try all that stuff out individually, in advance, if you can. The vocal mic (for me, all mic's) & monitors are the most important part of your signal chain to try out in advance, IMO, because it is completely VOICE-SPECIFIC! Only YOUR voice can make the final decision on what is right for you. So you should try that out first before you buy! And trust your ears. MXL's in most cases are not very good mic's, but they are Chinese cheap.

Yes, you can get your feet wet recording with that beginner's rig. But I predict that you will want to move up pretty fast to something better (especially the interface & mic) after half a year on it.

IMO, one mic simply doesn't cut it for recording vocals & acoustic guitar (though it is possible). I think you need at least one mid-large diaphragm condenser vocal mic and two small diaphragm condenser mics for stereo recording an acoustic guitar & achieving the best results in the most common miking patterns. Here's some info about them:

http://www.guitarists.net/lessons/view.php?id=170

Read my post above for some reasonable, inexpensive mic's to try out as you get started - the CAD multi-pattern M-179 L/D (for vocal or guitar) & the Oktava MK-012 S/D. Both very good mic's to start with & to stay with for awhile. Great values.

BTW, Ty Ford here likes this $49 MXL SP-1 L/D for vocals &/or guitar. A pair might do the trick for your guitar. Ty's got some great ears & is a seasoned recording pro:

http://www.pssl.com/MXL-SP1-Condense...hone-With-Clip

But again, please, try your vocal mic out before you buy to hear if your voice likes one over another one. Don't trust Musician's Friend to know what your voice likes. OK?

I'm not a fan of packages or the items in the one you're looking at. You can do better on your own with a bit more knowledge, especially better than that Fast Track interface & those M-Audio monitors (they suck!). Do some more homework on your own about compatible recording signal chains rigs. Plan it and learn why/how the different elements work together or don't. Take your time. It'll save you lots of money in the long run.

Check out the sites at Gear Page, Gearslutz, Taperssection, Home Recording, etc. for more knowledge & opinions. Guitar players, for the most part on AGF & guitar sites, with some great exceptions, don't know much about recording or recording rigs. Go to recording sites for the juicy stuff, Quinny.

MF is just OK in terms of info. They aren't very deep into quality pro recording products. Their price points & knowledge base are much lower on the chain.Sweetwater, Soundpure, Mercenary & BH Photo gives you much more info. Order their free catalogs online. You have to know what's out there in all price ranges of equipment to see if you're getting a real value or not. Understand?

Of course, plenty will depend on what kind of computer you plan to record on. If it's an Apple, you could get an Apogee Duet firewire interface & use it with Garageband or Logic & get some great results - much better than Fast Track is capable of. The Duet's mic pre's are incredible for the price - none better under $1500. Pristine sound that's worth 10X the $450 price.

My philosophy in collecting mics is: buy the best you can afford, & buy mic's you'll want to be using in five years. I have some classics I've been collecting for over 30 years. I use them all. Same with mic pre's, another discussion (but something you should think about as you research your rig).

The final comment is: What are you gonna do about ROOM TREATMENT! It's as important as your rig in terms of making the largest difference in quality of recorded music. Read up on that & here's some DIY info from Fran Guidry:

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/...-on-the-cheap/

Here's another - check this out at the 30 sec. mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4d-BwkciOk

Good luck Quinny in your search. And try it out first.

alohachris

[Ty Ford]

AC,

thanks for including me in your report.

Fro vocal mics see if you can find an Audio Technica AE5400. It's got 1/2 of the same capsule of the AT4050. I put it up against the Neumann KMS 105 and it did a very respectable job. I has a low cut and pad. If you have a boomy voice and eat the mic, the low cut does a great job of cleaning up the sound.

Not always easy to find the AE5400, but worth the effort.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by sn4p3

... Is there a clear winner here? If I had to rank them, I think I would go:

1) Cobalt (cheapest, there are two, better than laptop mic)
2) Shure (great quality, decent price, but only 1 mic )
3)MXL 4000 FET (good reviews about it being a good mic for the price. Extra mic is a bonus).
4) Yetti (more expensive, and limits my options on how I use it (only recording via USB).

My opinion is none of the above. Typically, small condenser microphones are preferred for recording acoustic instruments because they tend to have a flatter, more accurate response than large diaphragm mics and their placement is less critical. I'm assuming that your list is an indication of the size of the budget you have in mind so I'd recommend this $70 interface:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...e_Pro_USB.html

And one of these microphones:

http://www.cadaudio.com/GXL1200.php
http://www.mxlmics.com/products/Stud.../604/v604.html

The main advantage of buying an interface and a microphone rather than a USB microphone is that you have the option of using any microphone in the future. For example, though a small diaphragm mic will record voices well, many people prefer to use a large diaphragm mic for that purpose and you may want to use such a mic in the future. Obviously, there would be advantages to buying a more expensive interface and more expensive microphones but the above is sufficient for you to start producing good quality recordings.

[Ty Ford]

Herb's found some great deals.

OTOH... for twice the price (+/-) you can get the original Centrance unit which gives you 24-bit recording. Always a good thing when recording music, http://tinyurl.com/2dyfpxh

On the issue of SD mics being flatter than LD mics. We all generalize to some degree here so we don't end up writing a text book.

Neumann KM 184 SD mics (among many other SD mics) are definitely NOT flat. They are very bright. That may have been helpful in the days of analog tape where the HF on the tape decreased over time, but we don't need to worry about that now with digital.

Actually, the humble EV 635a omni dynamic is relatively flat, durable as a moose and you can stick it almost in the sound hole of an acoustic guitar and it won't overload on the low end.

There are many reasons why two mics cost $100 versus $2000, but look the same. Find any SD mic you want and compare it to a Schoeps cmc641 for acoustic guitar.

But for your own personal money, Herb's choices will get you in the door.

Regards,

Ty Ford