Emerald Guitar needs North American Headquarters

[boneuphtoner]

Originally Posted by jdrnd

Why should someone have to join the acoustic guitar forum to test play an Emerald guitar?

I am sure that the vast majority of people who post at this forum are great people. That being said, except for a few of you who seem to know each other, most of us who post here know very little about each other.
As many of our signatures list the guitars that we own, it is apparent that many of us have thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars worth of musical instruments. That of course excludes other things that we own.

I have taught my kids not to give out their address and telephone number to people they meet and interact with on the internet.

Do you?

Getting back to the thread Earl wrote about meeting up and listing what you have and might be willing to share in your area, he was clear that in his view the initial meet up site should not be at one of each other’s houses, and I totally agree with him. I think meeting up with people who have a history of posting respectful comments (at least 100 posts) at a neutral site is reasonably safe. But as always go with your gut - if something doesn’t feel right, don’t do it.

I haven’t commented on this thread as I’m not yet an Emerald owner (but soon will be), but I’d wanted to reiterate the idea that CF is still a drop in the proverbial bucket in the guitar world. I listened to Taylor’s prime time pod cast this week, and Bob announced they are now making 800 guitars PER DAY (he didn’t clarify if that was El Cajon and Mexico combined). In contrast, RainSong produced ~1000 guitars during all of 2020, and I think Emerald is even smaller than that. So I get the hesitation to invest in costly infrastructure on another continent given these huge scale differences. Some of you may have been willing to shell out $2000+ for one of these instruments without ever playing it, but that’s not me - if I hadn’t played a RainSong at my dealer I wouldn’t be posting here right now - and there are not too many dealers who regularly stock RainSongs at all. So it is a catch 22 that I think you need a reasonable number of stocking dealers to really grow the larger category of CF - and I don’t get the sense that either RainSong or Emerald are ready or willing to do that. And that’s ok also.

JD;

I like the idea of a network of luthiers for CF guitars. While all luthiers might be able to do set-ups on CF instruments, certainly some have been tested and found to be good--it would be nice to have a list of the tried and true.

[Acousticado]

Iirc, Alistair had tried a dealer network in the US a number of years ago. Only he can know the needs of his business development and somewhere along the line, he decided that a direct sales business model would work best for him and by the look of it, he was right...despite that some may not like it, where most do.

With apparent success, which goes waaay beyond this forum, as Capt Jim had pointed out regarding the cost of maintaining a bricks and mortar US presence, it is highly unlikely that it would make any financial or logistical sense for Alistair to go that route (and would further inflate the already high cost...CF as a material isn’t cheap).

Despite the understandable desire to play before buying that many would like to see, imo there’s enough online description and videos that makes the leap of faith worth it, with little loss if one doesn’t like it with the 10 day return policy (just one-way shipping) or if reselling. I equate it as no different to taking a chance on a boutique custom wood guitar too far to travel to try out and even then, wood customs can vary from one to the next. Essentially, Emeralds are a one-piece guitar with body contouring that can’t be less comfortable than a traditional wood guitar, and with tough SS frets and tuners. There isn’t much to actually do a setup, so any skilled local tech should be able to tweak if the player can’t do it oneself.

Regardless, Emerald’s unique products are very much in demand, so it seems that Alistair is smart to ride that pony as effectively and efficiently for as long as he can before a competitor rises to challenge his products and business model.

[Captain Jim]

The world has changed. Thank you, internet. For 40 years, I was an "I have to try it before I buy it" guitar guy. When I discovered the consistency of Taylor guitars, I took a chance and ordered an 814ce with a gorgeous tobacco burst finish. I told the dealer, Jim from Guitar Rodeo, what I wanted with a set up and... it was perfect. Frankly, better than any acoustic guitar I had tried before I bought. I appreciate the experience of a good guitar with a good set up.

Since that experience over a decade ago, on-line or by phone is the only way I've bought guitars. Some have needed a good set up; the first carbon fiber guitar I bought was a RainSong Shorty (limited edition) that had a great sound and was set up way too high. Michael at MacNichol's did a set up on that one for me, even though that's not where I bought it. As far as my Emerald purchases, I took down the saddle a bit on the first one, an X7. The X20 and the X10 came set up nicely for my tastes.

I've learned to do my own set ups. My most recent guitar purchase was an electric. The dealer (owner) told me he had his tech go over it, and looked it over himself. The set up was too low and it had the worst fret end "meat hooks" I have ever seen/felt on a guitar. I ordered a fret file and some other stuff from Stew-Mac and learned how to properly deal with it... took me three workings to get it to where it is good, along with raising the action a bit. Now, it is a very nice guitar. But, it took some effort.

Why am I relating this story? Thanks for asking. If a guitar has a great sound and good construction, you should be able to tweak it (or have someone do that for you) to get it to where it is right for you. The set up on a carbon fiber guitar isn't any different from a wood guitar, so that shouldn't be an issue for a competent tech. If it doesn't sound good (as in Earl's case) or construction is lacking, that is a completely different story. In the case of that last guitar, the dealer offered to take it back... I declined that offer, mostly because I was sure the guitar could be set up properly, and also because I just didn't want to deal with them again.

I don't count on any guitar coming to me set up perfectly for my tastes. When it does happen, that's a bonus. A set up on a guitar is like buying a new car and then spending a bit of time adjusting the seat just the way you like it. A guitar from a reputable manufacturer isn't a pig in a poke. Plus, most of them (and good dealers) will give you a trial period. Since buying that first guitar on-line, I haven't had to send back a single one. A couple have needed a full set up, most have needed something minor... but, what I like in a set up may not be what works for you. Don't let a concern with a $75 set up (that it may not need) keep you from getting a great guitar. Don't let proximity to a builder sway you... if a builder were to put a Sales Center in LA, NYC, and Chicago, I would still have to travel well over 1,000 miles to get to any of them... and I would have missed out on some really great guitars along the way.

In the words of the philosopher Kramster: "Just sayin'."

[jdrnd]

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

I've learned to do my own set ups.

Okay, I get the message.

[jdrnd]

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

I've learned to do my own set ups.

BUT,

Are you saying that if any of us buys a new guitar for $3000 be it wood, CF, or carmelized whale blubber,
its the default expectation that the guitar will not be set up correctly?

[Captain Jim]

Originally Posted by jdrnd

BUT,

Are you saying that if any of us buys a new guitar for $3000 be it wood, CF, or carmelized whale blubber,
its the default expectation that the guitar will not be set up correctly?

I think, perhaps, you are taking this to the extreme because I presented business reasons why it wouldn't be good for Emerald to open "Outposts" in the US. Besides, most of us know that caramelized whale blubber isn't as resistant to extreme changes in humidity as carbon fiber or wood. Yes, that's a joke.

The issue with a set up is what works well for a strummer may be too high for a fingerstyle player... so there isn't any "one best set up." It all depends on each individual and how they will use the guitar... finger strength, pick attack, bare nails vs finger pads. What I am saying: a good set up - for the individual - will make a difference for that specific player.

I wasn't picking at you regarding US "outposts" for Emerald. In business, bigger is not always better. Some things can be automated better than others - like wood guitar production once a sales figure is reached vs carbon fiber guitar production. You don't see a big factory like Taylor kicking out carbon fiber guitars (well, for one reason, Bob Taylor was quoted as saying Taylor will not be making composite (CF) guitars) for the same reason you don't see sailboat manufacturers making tons of carbon fiber boats, or even masts. It takes a different skill set to make a specialized carbon fiber product than to use a CNC machine to carve out wood necks and headstocks. Not to mention (but here I am mentioning it) the limited market/demand for that carbon fiber product.

I get what you are saying: I am sold on carbon fiber guitars. Frankly, I think some of the manufacturers are not taking advantage of all that carbon fiber brings to the table because they are still building carbon fiber guitars that emulate wood guitars. Emerald stands head and shoulders above the other CF manufacturers (in my opinion) with their forward-thinking designs. That said, acoustic guitar buyers tend to be conservative, and that isn't a word I'd use to describe Emerald designs.

From a business perspective, changing a business model is a big deal. It isn't just a matter that they'd need to raise the price substantially, but they'd need to sell more guitars for it to be worth their while. How many guitars can they produce, and even more to the point, how much of a market is out there? BIG risk vs potential benefit.

Now to speak specifically to your "default expectation": the second worst set up I've had on any guitar out of the box was a carbon fiber guitar I bought from a dealer known here (not Emerald). It was painfully high, and, no, there was no second saddle in the case. I took it down initially, but a good set up by Michael at MacNichol made it what it should have been. I have high expectations on any guitar I order, but I'm also realistic. What carbon fiber has going for it is the stability: that good set up will last a very long time. IF it sounds good to you out of the box, that isn't going to change. I wasn't sending any "message" about learning to do my own set ups. I didn't even try it the first 30 years or so of playing, other than on adjustable electrics... I was concerned about screwing up a good guitar. That was also back when I didn't buy 'em if I hadn't tried 'em. Living on the "edge of the country" means I don't have easy access to guitars that I may have interest in. We like where we live, and I really appreciate the access the internet gives me to all kinds of gear. I'm really not the bad guy here, I've just been around long enough with guitars and business to have a real appreciation for what it takes to get to the level Emerald has achieved. I figure they know best on their direction for the future.

I just found the original premise of this thread to be more about what would be most convenient for you, rather than what might make the most business sense for Emerald. Having done business with Emerald, it seems their business model is working for them. Sure, it would be more convenient for me if they had an outlet in south Texas, but I'm guessing Alistair likes living where he does as much as I do.

[steelvibe]

I've had to set up all of my guitars, even the Shorty- the most expensive guitar I have ever owned. I bought from Michael at MacNichol G&M. They did set it up with a MOP saddle but I took it down even further (mostly because of that baseball bat neck and flat as a floor fretboard radius).

Some of my purchases have been better than others but, yes, all of my guitars have needed tweaking to meet my preferences. It's all good, but fret out on a new guitar would have me pretty miffed as I understand has happened to some here.

[AZLiberty]

Originally Posted by RP

FWIW I've seen a couple on the streets of Charlottesville...

That's the Bronco Sport. They only started building the Bronco last week. 1st deliveries of the full size Bronco will not be until June.

The Ford marketing guys must be patting themselves on the back with fists full of 100 dollar bills. Two completely different vehicles, but using the same branding.

Have to buy the full size one if you want a stick shift.

[jdrnd]

Originally Posted by steelvibe

I've had to set up all of my guitars, even the Shorty- the most expensive guitar I have ever owned. I bought from Michael at MacNichol G&M. They did set it up with a MOP saddle but I took it down even further (mostly because of that baseball bat neck and flat as a floor fretboard radius).

Some of my purchases have been better than others but, yes, all of my guitars have needed tweaking to meet my preferences. It's all good, but fret out on a new guitar would have me pretty miffed as I understand has happened to some here.

Okay. I will order some blank saddles from graph tech. My wife will kill me if I ruin this guitar. if you go to the Emerald home page and scroll down to "explore models" the Pau ferro X-30 that is shown is actually my guitar. It has the identical wood configuration. It sounds great, and due to the high action (after I adjusted it) my hand strength has improved significantly. I bet i can crush steel beer cans (That used to be a thing).

[jdrnd]

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

I just found the original premise of this thread to be more about what would be most convenient for you, rather than what might make the most business sense for Emerald.

YES.

That is true. I (we) are the customer(s). Customer do not buy a product for the convenience of the seller.


If everybody here keeps posting
"we don't mind that set ups are not perfect, shipping is slow and eradicate, wait times are excessively long, but we will still buy your product anyway"
than you are correct Emerald will not change its business model.

People have to speak up. If more people did, the business model might change.

[jdrnd]

Originally Posted by AZLiberty

That's the Bronco Sport. They only started building the Bronco last week.

Do they come with a Pau ferro veneer?


If the Bronco sport wasn't completely tuned up when you took it home, If it took over 6 months to deliver after you ordered one, and after you bought the car in the lot it took 3 weeks for it to be ready for pick up. Would you praise Ford for their business model?


I Know what you are going to say. Most new cars that you buy are never completely tuned up the way you want, so you tune them up yourself after you take the vehicle home.

[domen]

Originally Posted by jdrnd

YES.

That is true. I (we) are the customer(s). Customer do not buy a product for the convenience of the seller.


If everybody here keeps posting
"we don't mind that set ups are not perfect, shipping is slow and eradicate, wait times are excessively long, but we will still buy your product anyway"
than you are correct Emerald will not change its business model.

People have to speak up. If more people did, the business model might change.

I am one of the latest arrivals here and I apologize if these words of mine may sound too direct but I seem to read a lot of good attitude from many here in trying to answer you, I do not see the same attitude from yours. Not everyone agrees with what you write, surely not me, and we are talking about guitars not social rights, why should I 'speak up'? of course customers rightly think only of their convenience but this gives them no right to tell others how they should do their business. if you like something and the terms of sale suit you, you buy it otherwise you choose something else.

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by jdrnd

If everybody here keeps posting
"we don't mind that set ups are not perfect, shipping is slow and eradicate, wait times are excessively long, but we will still buy your product anyway"
than you are correct Emerald will not change its business model.

I haven’t seen anyone post any such thing besides you.

I have an expectation when I spend good money on a guitar that the setup will be reasonable when it arrives. Neither of my Emeralds have needed any subsequent work, but if they had (absent any obvious construction problem), any competent tech could sort them out - just the same as they would for any other guitar.

Shipping is a problem for everyone right now, and hardly Emerald’s issue. I have two packages with FedEx right now - one incoming, one outgoing. For both, tracking information simply stopped being updated last Tuesday. I have no idea where either of them is, or when either will be delivered. The responsibility lies entirely with FedEx, not with me as a sender, or the company who shipped me a product on Monday in good faith.

Wait times are wait times. Everyone goes into these transactions with their eyes open. Emerald seems (in general) to be able to deliver a custom order within timeframes that other conventional manufacturers can only dream of.

Yes, I’m an Emerald fan. Regardless of that, I think you’re really making several mountains out of a molehill.

Now, get your X30 set up properly, and ENJOY IT!

[jdrnd]

Originally Posted by eatswodo

Now, get your X30 set up properly, and ENJOY IT!

uhh okay