Shertler Jam 400 help - Page 3

Doug Michaels · #31 03-08-2014, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vancebo

Sorry to hear that. Where did you get it? That amp would be a rare thing to see in most guitar stores.

I got the amp from a dealer in Seattle. Michael, the rep there, is very easy and nice to work with. He is a classically trained musician and loves good sound himself. But he has no experience with the Jam line from Shertler other than selling them. He orders them from the Eastman distributor in Los Angeles so he is just a middle man with a computer. But in working with him for two weeks, we have shared over 50 emails and several phone calls. He has been in touch with Shertler for me and has done an outstanding job. Too bad he doesn't know much at all about his product.

Vancebo · #32 03-08-2014, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Michaels

I got the amp from a dealer in Seattle. Michael, the rep there, is very easy and nice to work with.

My I ask what dealer?

Doug Michaels · #33 03-09-2014, 01:04 AM

It was SoundIsland Music and they just moved to West Seattle. They are just an internet dealer, no storefront, but Michael who owns and operates it is a stand up guy. He has been great to deal with regarding customer service, call backs, emails, etc. He has contacted Shertler for me and the distributor in Los Angeles and seems to genuinely be interested in helping his customers find what they want. I do have a fifteen day return policy with him for a full refund, not store credit like some do.

rockabilly69 · #34 03-09-2014, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Michaels

Glad you got that Unico because when I saw it for sale on the forum I almost jumped on it. That was about a month ago.
After much tweeking and using various preamps and other gear, I have decided to send this Jam 400 back. I cannot get a good sound out of it no matter what I do. I compared tonight to my SoloAmp SA220 and the 220 sounds a lot better. I really don't think the Shertler Jam 400 is 'voiced' for acoustic guitars. The is no presence control, no notch filter, no sweepable mids,.....all things that good acoustic amps have or should. I have tried four high end acoustic guitars all with different pickups, some mono, some dual source, with very poor results, IMHO. Now off to the hunt again. Not my favorite thing to do actually.

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you, but I was gigging two gigs a day on the road...

I know this sounds funny but I run the bass and mids control almost all the way off with the high flat, and I am getting a killer guitar sound out of it. This is on my vocal channel, and both direct and mic channels, and my Jam 400 smokes my Fishman 220, no contest. I am constantly getting compliments on my sound, much more than I have with any other rig. I know the tone control setup sounds unorthodox but it works! By the way the Resonance control is on channel #5 and it doesn't really work with the Lyric, the Equinox is the only pre I have found that gets the three different notches that Lyric needs!

Doug Michaels · #35 03-09-2014, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockabilly69

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you, but I was gigging two gigs a day on the road...

I know this sounds funny but I run the bass and mids control almost all the way off with the high flat, and I am getting a killer guitar sound out of it. This is on my vocal channel, and both direct and mic channels, and my Jam 400 smokes my Fishman 220, no contest. I am constantly getting compliments on my sound, much more than I have with any other rig. I know the tone control setup sounds unorthodox but it works! By the way the Resonance control is on channel #5 and it doesn't really work with the Lyric, the Equinox is the only pre I have found that gets the three different notches that Lyric needs!

Good to hear all this. Last night I went with my Pendulum SPS-1 as a preamp and got some great sounds. I am finding it really makes a huge difference to have a preamp with the Jam 400 and my Pendulum works great. The Raven Labs works great too but not close to the Pendulum. I also have a ToneLabs PZPre which does not work with any of my pickups very well. So after my research, I have found that the preamp makes a big difference and I think the Jam 400 needs one. And then after that its the pickup. LIke you said, the Lyric is tough to eq with the Jam and the K&K mini gives me some good sound with a lot of possible variations using the Pendulum. I agree that the Jam smokes the Fishman SA220, commonly called the Fishstick. The bass and clarity of the Jam is what does it for me. I may have to go with a Dtar Solstice for my other guitars as a preamp or change out the Lyric for a K&K.
Thanks for the help.

rockabilly69 · #36 03-09-2014, 03:02 PM

Well I'm glad you didn't give up on the Jam 400! But if you go with a Dtar, you need the Equinox, not the Solstice, unless you are dual sourcing. I have both and run the Equinox in the insert of channel one of the Solstice.

Although I like the Lyric for what it is, I don't honestly think you can single source it, it just doesn't have the low end necessary, but I feel as a second source it's pretty powerful. I have run it in tandem with a DiMarzio Angel, and also a DiMarzio DP139, and with the DP139 it was GREAT!!!

Even with the Dtar stuff I run the mids and lows almost all the way off on the Jam 400, so make sure to try that!!! I don't know why Schertler voiced so much so low end and mids into the channels. But I will say that I love that low end, as I use my homemade porch board into channel 4, and I have never gotten a more sold thump out of a self contained amp!

For a solo fingerpicking guitar player the SA220 is a decent tool but when it comes to hard strumming, vocals, percussion, the Jam 400 blows it away. You should hear the abuse that I throw at my Schertler. One minute I will be playing an open tunes fingerpicked delicate instrumental, then the next minute I will be playing a distorted slide guitar (with a Fulldrive II, and SexDrive pedal cascaded together) that is on the verge of meltdown! I knew the Jam 400 was capable of abuse as I watched Bob Brozman torturing his RA400 (which is a slightly tweaked version of the Jam400), and his rig sounded great.

Vancebo · #37 03-09-2014, 03:31 PM

Man, you guys. I am following this with great interest. I have really been following and contributing to all of the Lyric discussions and now the Schertler threads as well since I am a new owner of a Unico.

Rockabilly, on one hand, I totally get why you are having to crank the Bass and mids way down. But are you doing that and using your Equinox at the same time? It's clear from your past threads that you understand how the Lyric Improves with specific EQ, namely notching out certain lower mid frequencies. IMO any acoustic guitar oriented amp is probably not geared for the needs of the Lyric. Since you are dual sourcing it with a Mag PU (I believe) you are probably compounding the problem in the Bass area by combining it with a bass rich PU.

My other question for both of you is where is your presence screw dialed at? With my Equinox, I was finally tired of doing all of the big deep EQ cuts and I boosted the Presence screw up from around 40% to around 60 to 70% Now I use my Equinox almost flat except for the 2 notch filters and a fairly narrow mid cut. I couldn't be happier. I find the Unico has a better bass response than my Bose. More detailed, etc. Some day, if this Unico thing works out it may lead me to sell off the Bose and the Unico for a Jam 400. So I eager to see what you guys discover. Thanks.

rockabilly69 · #38 03-09-2014, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vancebo

Rockabilly, on one hand, I totally get why you are having to crank the Bass and mids way down. But are you doing that and using your Equinox at the same time? It's clear from your past threads that you understand how the Lyric Improves with specific EQ, namely notching out certain lower mid frequencies. IMO any acoustic guitar oriented amp is probably not geared for the needs of the Lyric. Since you are dual sourcing it with a Mag PU (I believe) you are probably compounding the problem in the Bass area by combining it with a bass rich PU.

My other question for both of you is where is your presence screw dialed at? With my Equinox, I was finally tired of doing all of the big deep EQ cuts and I boosted the Presence screw up from around 40% to around 60 to 70% Now I use my Equinox almost flat except for the 2 notch filters and a fairly narrow mid cut. I couldn't be happier. I find the Unico has a better bass response than my Bose. More detailed, etc. Some day, if this Unico thing works out it may lead me to sell off the Bose and the Unico for a Jam 400. So I eager to see what you guys discover. Thanks.

Vancebo, the Jam 400 is just very low and mid oriented, so I do that with ALL the pickups I use, and my vocal mic! It changes drastically though the higher it gets up in the air. It's only when it's on the ground when I do the big cuts. When it's up on the stand, I do it less so, but yes, I do it even with the Equinox. When I use the Equinox, it's in channel one of the Solstice. Channel 2 of the Soltice is for the Dimarzio magnetic, and the tone control works fine for that, as the Dimarzios react well to the Solstice EQ, and do not need an Equinox! I like my presense control on the Lyric about the 50% mark, anything more and it gets too edgy for me.

What frequencies are you notch filters set to, and what are the corresponding gain cuts for those frequencies? And what mid are you cutting, what Q, and how much gain. And what kind of guitar, I'm using a very lightly braced 50's reissue Gibson J45. It is a very light guitar, actually the lightest J-45 I've ever played and I've played a bunch (new and vintage).

There is no question to me that the bass response is better on the Schertler than on the Bose. Bose bass response is hyped, and like I said I use a Bose 4 days a week so I KNOW what I'm talking about! But what I really like about the Schertler is the fuller mids in the Jam 400. I can not express enough how great it is to go from my daytime gigs using the Bose, where I fight the whole time to get a balance between the lows and highs, to my night time gigs with the Schertler and everything feels just right!

Vancebo · #39 03-09-2014, 03:59 PM

Just last night, I was testing the Unico with my Equinox. With the Unico set flat I came up with a great sound with the Notch filters in the 80hz and 180hz range and the mid knob cutting around 500 approx. 6 db. with a fairly narrow Q. (9:00 on the dial) Lows and Highs are flat. My presence knob is up since I have to cut through a band mix. If I didn't I would prefer it lower like you. My axe is a Taylor GS with Coco and Adi top. It's warm low mid and bass heavy. (which is accentuated by the Lyric IMO)

To find the places to notch out, I simply turn the Bass knob all the way and found the worst 2 offending out of control frequencies.

Doug Michaels · #40 03-09-2014, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockabilly69

Vancebo, the Jam 400 is just very low and mid oriented, so I do that with ALL the pickups I use, and my vocal mic! It changes drastically though the higher it gets up in the air. It's only when it's on the ground when I do the big cuts. When it's up on the stand, I do it less so, but yes, I do it even with the Equinox. When I use the Equinox, it's in channel one of the Solstice. Channel 2 of the Soltice is for the Dimarzio magnetic, and the tone control works fine for that, as the Dimarzios react well to the Solstice EQ, and do not need an Equinox! I like my presense control on the Lyric about the 50% mark, anything more and it gets too edgy for me.

What frequencies are you notch filters set to, and what are the corresponding gain cuts for those frequencies? And what mid are you cutting, what Q, and how much gain. And what kind of guitar, I'm using a very lightly braced 50's reissue Gibson J45. It is a very light guitar, actually the lightest J-45 I've ever played and I've played a bunch (new and vintage).

There is no question to me that the bass response is better on the Schertler than on the Bose. Bose bass response is hyped, and like I said I use a Bose 4 days a week so I KNOW what I'm talking about! But what I really like about the Schertler is the fuller mids in the Jam 400. I can not express enough how great it is to go from my daytime gigs using the Bose, where I fight the whole time to get a balance between the lows and highs, to my night time gigs with the Schertler and everything feels just right!

After putting my Pendulum SPS-1 before the Jam 400, my Custom Shop Breedlove sounds awesome through the Jam 400. It sounds terrible without the Pendulum. My Breedlove has a K&K plus an undersaddle by LR Baggs. The two work great now in this setup.
My Martin, which has the Lyric only, sounds terrible through just the Jam 400 but adding a preamp improves the sound a lot. I do have the presence screw at about 8 out of 10. But I like a lot of presence and treble. The Jam now offers me the great combo of good clear treble, enough mid to fill in, and the bass, as Rockabilly said, is fantastic. Its clear, punchy, big but not covering up the other frequencies.
Running my vocals through the Jam 400 also sounds better than any PA or amp I have heard. They too are clear and helped a lot with the bass response of the Jam.
Yesterday the other half of my group showed up for a practice session. We both agreed the vocals were great. Now that I have the guitars figured out I plan on keeping the Jam 400. The versatility of it is also amazing with so many inputs and some onboard effects, mostly delays.
For anyone planning on buying the Jam 400, I strongly suggest they plan on the possibility of needing to buy a preamp like a Raven PMB or Dtar Equinox or Solstice. I dual source so I would go with the Solstice. The Jam 400 is about $1200 and adding another $300 or so for a preamp makes this a pricey deal. But I feel the sound that one can get from the Jam, with a little patience, is worth it for high end sound.
Sorry for such a long post.

Vancebo · #41 03-09-2014, 06:05 PM

Good to hear that.

If there is a Jam 400 in my future it means I will be selling my Bose L1 Model 2. It has it's benefits. Remember to send me a pm of some gigging dates this summer in Bend. My wife and I love going to there and plan to this summer more than once. Or better yet I will PM you when we go. I would love to hear it live.

Doug Michaels · #42 03-09-2014, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vancebo

Good to hear that.

If there is a Jam 400 in my future it means I will be selling my Bose L1 Model 2. It has it's benefits. Remember to send me a pm of some gigging dates this summer in Bend. My wife and I love going to there and plan to this summer more than once. Or better yet I will PM you when we go. I would love to hear it live.

I had the Bose L1 for a couple of years and gigged with it alot. It was a good sound and with the ToneMatch mixer, it was a good setup. I did get tired of hauling that stuff into places and at times it was more sound than I needed. It was also intimidating to the managers of restaurants and places I played if the gig was small. I decided to sell it and I replaced with the SA220. It was a great choice. Now I am simply trying to improve my sound over the SA220 and think that the Jam 400 will do that, with the Pendulum.