Our worst Brazilian Rosewood

[joejeweler]

Geeze,....that 3rd brazilian set is a dead ringer for my Taylor Koa "Vagitar". But then i'd be cheating if i got another gal to strum on.

Originally Posted by K III

Bruce is still annoyed from the petrified wood thread, so now he is bull****ting everyone.

However, as you know, when I picked the wood for my Olson, I was going down your road. This was the choice:


I guess it is easy to see similarities between the right one and Bruce's "worst", but I followed his rules and chose the left. Not perfect, but close

[Bruce Sexauer]

I do not expect any predictable tonal variable from the current wood I'm using as compared to any higher grade I might have chosen. There is bound to be more tension in this choice than in a straighter simpler piece, but not so's the ear would notice IMO. There is more likely to be a long term price paid in stability, but if I really thought that was an issue I wouldn't have bought it or used it, so it's moot from a practical view point. Because I am going to go as thin as the wood feel strong enough to bear (already did, actually), and there is some fragility around the "run-out" the flame represents, it will probably be a bit more fragile than your average BRW guitar where picking it up with one's thumb on the back and fingers on the top is concerned. I do not guarantee my instruments against that as it is abuse, but I DO actually do it myself. I have built many guitars from similar BRW w/o meaningful trouble, so all of this qualifying is just exercise; the guitar will be fine.

[joejeweler]

From a purely tonal yardstick,...i would agree that it would be near impossible to hear a difference between
your more figured BRW example and the straight grained quarter sawn variety.

However, ...from a purely esthetic point of view, i'll take the added beauty
as a trade off to some stability issues,..... anytime!

Going from this:



....to this on my Ryan Grand Parlor Abbey......



..........and i can honestly say i have no regrets with the wood choice.
Neither will the lucky buyer of this very nice "chunk-o-wood" once transformed into playable art!

[/QUOTE]


BTW, not sure if i can ever say i picked up an acoustic pinching it between the top and back on the body though! I'm a grab the neck near the headstock and on a side near the tailblock sort of guy. My hands don't have the size to do it any other way i suppose.

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

I do not expect any predictable tonal variable from the current wood I'm using as compared to any higher grade I might have chosen. There is bound to be more tension in this choice than in a straighter simpler piece, but not so's the ear would notice IMO. There is more likely to be a long term price paid in stability, but if I really thought that was an issue I wouldn't have bought it or used it, so it's moot from a practical view point. Because I am going to go as thin as the wood feel strong enough to bear (already did, actually), and there is some fragility around the "run-out" the flame represents, it will probably be a bit more fragile than your average BRW guitar where picking it up with one's thumb on the back and fingers on the top is concerned. I do not guarantee my instruments against that as it is abuse, but I DO actually do it myself. I have built many guitars from similar BRW w/o meaningful trouble, so all of this qualifying is just exercise; the guitar will be fine.

[Kevin A]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

I have built many guitars from similar BRW w/o meaningful trouble, so all of this qualifying is just exercise; the guitar will be fine.

I dont doubt for a moment, Bruce, that the guitar will sound exceptional!

Seeing this wood set you posted reminded me when I was doing the same 'wood search' through A.L.'s collection of braz stumpwood a number of years ago as well. The set I came away with (shown below) certainly doesnt qualify as 'straight-grained'—but tonally, the guitar made from it is a knockout.

I look forward to seeing this guitar come together—'worst' braz or not!

Braz rosewood set 'in the raw'...


Finished...

[ChuckS]

I told my builder to stop looking through his stock when he showed me this set of BRW.

[Bruce Sexauer]

On the other hand, this is pretty good Honduras Mahogany (and Adi) that I am currently making a Schoenberg Standard (ES-000-C) from:


Now that this box is closed I will move forward to assemble and close the BRW 00. Then I'll bind them at the same time.

[stuartb]

I think the wood is great. I love wood with character. Straight is boring, and as you mention, the wood is stable enough.

It'll be gorgeous.

And it'll play magnificently I'm sure.

Stuart

[ediverudt]

On the last guitar I designed I had as near perfectly 1/4 sawn DN as I have ever seen. That said the guitar was treated with process to make the finnish white and the only place you can tell is if you look inside.

I have not noticed a significant difference in 1/4 sawn tone on the backs of guitars however the sides seem to sound better (subjective ) when far less flat swan form than most stump wood. the part about it being subjective is unimportant what is important is there is measurable difference. Also bending sides that have run-out in them is tough luck unless there are three boards to a flich.

[arie]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

I do not expect any predictable tonal variable from the current wood I'm using as compared to any higher grade I might have chosen. There is bound to be more tension in this choice than in a straighter simpler piece, but not so's the ear would notice IMO. There is more likely to be a long term price paid in stability, but if I really thought that was an issue I wouldn't have bought it or used it, so it's moot from a practical view point. Because I am going to go as thin as the wood feel strong enough to bear (already did, actually), and there is some fragility around the "run-out" the flame represents, it will probably be a bit more fragile than your average BRW guitar where picking it up with one's thumb on the back and fingers on the top is concerned. I do not guarantee my instruments against that as it is abuse, but I DO actually do it myself. I have built many guitars from similar BRW w/o meaningful trouble, so all of this qualifying is just exercise; the guitar will be fine.

will you brace the back with traditional ladder bracing or go with something else?

[Bruce Sexauer]

Schoenberg guitars, which this is, are conservative renditions of the traditional American (Martin) paradigm. Although Martin never made long scale 14 fret 00 sized guitars in the early '30's, if they had it would have been much like this instrument. Ladder braced back! In fact, I have never seen any reason to stray far from the ladder braces back; I get very satisfying results using it.

As long an s the structural needs are met, the bracing pattern is much less important than the braces themselves. IMO!

[kirkham13]

Stumpwood is beautiful, as exhibited on almost every Bourgeois Brazilian I have seen... I think the fabled Brazilian has been reduced to beautiful stumpwood. Next stop, Brazilian plywood! Finally we will have a Brazilian composite made from shavings... aka baby Martin Brazilian spec.

[Bruce Sexauer]

Bending the sides today. The other side of the back:

[Bruce Sexauer]

Here's a gander at those aforementioned sides, and the peone process I famously favor:

[Bruce Sexauer]

Another reason this is our worst BRW is that the sides are not perfectly matched. They are quite quartered, and are from the same board, and may even be adjacent cuts, but it won't look that way at the end graft. Nothing to do with the quality of the guitar, but not going to bring the big bucks either! Today I am being called for dinner just after I got the ribbons in. These are authentically old ribbon stock that I got from Eric in the beginning of my tenure as the go-to Schoenberg builder.

[K III]

Bruce,
in all due respect, 2 pages into the thread you should stop making fun of us using the word "worst"

Otherwise I will...