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  #16  
Old 01-18-2022, 10:05 AM
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Mr. Jelly Mr. Jelly is offline
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I really respect those of you who approach music this way. I can't though I have never really tried. I get too carried away playing guitar. And I've played guitar for over 55 years.
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  #17  
Old 01-18-2022, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Can you sing the lines you're trying to play? You don't have to be able to sing well, but truly hearing the sound in your head, which singing will help verify, is a first step. .
Hi Doug
Did we just learn something I've never dreamed of…YOU SINGING??? (just ribbing you a little)

Singing is certainly a way of feeling phrasing if-one-sings-the-phrasing-correctly.

At 2005 Healdsburg I attended a class called "Putting your heart into your hands" taught by Muriel Anderson,
who has made me cry when just listening to her demo guitars for builders at Healdsburg.

The class involved detailed discussions of tempo, phrasing and dynamics.





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Last edited by ljguitar; 01-18-2022 at 11:14 PM. Reason: clarified something (maybe)
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  #18  
Old 01-19-2022, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
Hi Doug
Did we just learn something I've never dreamed of…YOU SINGING??? (just ribbing you a little)

Singing is certainly a way of feeling phrasing if-one-sings-the-phrasing-correctly.
I doubt you'll catch me singing (tho I used to..). But you don't have to sing well, or even recognizably :-). Listen to some of the solo jazz guitarists (or pianists) and you'll often hear them "singing" along with their improvisations. George Benson turned it into a feature by actually singing well, and making it part of the performance. But most of them sound like they're grunting in pain or gasping for breath. But in their head, they're hearing the melody and making it come out both on the guitar and vocally. I once took a workshop with Herb Ellis and he talked about this and demonstrated it, and it was quite hysterical how bad the vocalization was. But the guitar sounded great, and his lines had a vocal phrasing quality. In his head, he was singing the same thing he was playing. The trick is to be able to internalize the line. It's the advice you often hear - "if you can't hear it, you can't play it". The "proof" that you can hear it is to sing it, no matter how badly. I imagine being able to sing it well might be better, but as long as in your head you are really hearing the line, that should help. It can't be "first I put my finger here, then I put my finger there" if you want it to sound musical.

And of course, if you're not playing a single lead line, but instead a polyphonic fingerstyle piece, then really singing it isn't possible. But you can "sing" the melody and mentally hear all the parts.
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Old 01-19-2022, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
I doubt you'll catch me singing (tho I used to..). But you don't have to sing well, or even recognizably :-). Listen to some of the solo jazz guitarists (or pianists) and you'll often hear them "singing" along with their improvisations.
Hi Doug…

Teaching players to recognize and duplicate the melody was one of the 'challenges' I had with non-singing students.

I often started them on nursery rhymes, or Somewhere Over the Rainbow, or Amazing Grace to start incorporating recognizable melodies into their repertoire.

Yeah there are a lot of jazz guitarists who duet in unison with their improvising.




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  #20  
Old 01-19-2022, 04:57 PM
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"Lala" singing works for me. I am about four months into fingerstyle lessons over ZOOM with Bob Halperin. During one session, I just could not reproduce his presentation of the melody. And then I just started singing lala's to it, to get it in my ear. Bingo, fingers went in the right place. Very effective strategy.
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  #21  
Old 01-22-2022, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly View Post
I really respect those of you who approach music this way. I can't though I have never really tried. I get too carried away playing guitar. And I've played guitar for over 55 years.
That's me, too.

My purpose in posting this was based on my recent opinion that, while I like to play, I sometimes get caught up in the playing and lose focus on what the song is saying.

A recent tune I was working on has highly emotional content, and while I can play the song, I lose the emotional part when I start playing the solos.

One thing that amuses me (sort of) is that I've been in the computer/technical field my entire career, and yet have never been inspired to combine computer technology with my guitar playing. I'm going to correct that. I've purchased a dynamic mic, a stand, a camera and a light, and I'm going to start recording backing tracks for myself. My thinking is that if I follow along with the chord changes I can get a better sense of what notes and spaces fit where.
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  #22  
Old 01-24-2022, 01:15 PM
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Along with singing the lines in my head, REALLY listening to the notes inside me has helped a lot with phrasing and melodic playing...

Another thing that helped tremendously was Kenny Werner's book, "Effortless Mastery". This really assisted trusting my own musical sense and ability to get the most out of what I have to give with the guitar...
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