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  #1  
Old 01-08-2022, 02:12 PM
LHawes LHawes is offline
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Default Bending Sides and Lam Sides Together?

I'm going to laminate my next sides and was wondering if anyone has bent both sets together? I've got a Fox style bender and was thinking that I could go

steel
side set
steel
heat blanket
steel
side set
steel

Down side could be the shear thickness of the set up and incomplete bend that might occur, up side might be the planned cut away bend could be mitigated by another layer?

Dunno. Anyone with experience?

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 01-08-2022, 05:41 PM
Fathand Fathand is offline
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If I were going to bend 2 sides together, I would do them side by side. I've done it with binding but I don't build my bending forms wide enough for 2 sides wide.

The way you are proposing would create tighter bends on the inside of the curves and wider bends on the outside. Maybe it wouldn't be enough to make a difference though but why start with inaccuracy? Also the outer side set could be a different temperature than inner as one is modified by the bending form.
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  #3  
Old 01-09-2022, 07:44 AM
LHawes LHawes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fathand View Post
If I were going to bend 2 sides together, I would do them side by side. I've done it with binding but I don't build my bending forms wide enough for 2 sides wide.

The way you are proposing would create tighter bends on the inside of the curves and wider bends on the outside. Maybe it wouldn't be enough to make a difference though but why start with inaccuracy? Also the outer side set could be a different temperature than inner as one is modified by the bending form.
Thanks. My bender isn't wide enough for 2 sides either and the concern you mention about tighter bends on the inside is what I was thinking. Different enough to matter? Dunno but I guess theoretically a laminated side will end up with a tighter bend on the inside lamination even if bent individually to the same shape.

Was hoping someone had tried it and failed/succeeded to share the tale. Not sure what I'll do but the experimenter in me will probably try it someday.

Thanks again.
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  #4  
Old 01-09-2022, 10:44 AM
redir redir is offline
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Laminate sides are usually done cold. The wood is thin enough to be pressed into and clamped on a form that takes the sides shape. Glue them up, clamp them up, let it dry over night and when you take it out of the jig they are good to go.
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  #5  
Old 01-09-2022, 12:24 PM
LHawes LHawes is offline
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THANKS,

Interesting, never thought of that and have never seen it done that way at least not on YouTube lol. How would one 'dry bend' for a cutaway? Seems difficult at best.
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  #6  
Old 01-09-2022, 03:42 PM
redir redir is offline
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Check out how Bogdanovich does it:

https://www.jsbguitars.com/learn-gui...es/laminating/

It would not really be any different to add a cut away side.
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  #7  
Old 01-09-2022, 08:29 PM
OldDave OldDave is offline
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That is some interesting info.
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Old 01-09-2022, 09:26 PM
LHawes LHawes is offline
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Yeah thanks redir. That was a great site and tips. Changing my ideas about what approach to take or wait and gather more information.

I watched Driftwood Guitars lam his sides and was inspired as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoqebMnhELg&t=214s
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  #9  
Old 01-10-2022, 07:29 AM
redir redir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LHawes View Post
Yeah thanks redir. That was a great site and tips. Changing my ideas about what approach to take or wait and gather more information.

I watched Driftwood Guitars lam his sides and was inspired as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoqebMnhELg&t=214s
I may very well be mistaken by saying that 'most luthiers' do it the way Bog does. Bog's approach seems easier to me but then this Driftwood guitar approach he may be using very thick laminates too.

Anyway as per usual there are lots of ways to accomplish the same task in luthiery.
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Old 01-10-2022, 08:11 AM
LHawes LHawes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redir View Post
I may very well be mistaken by saying that 'most luthiers' do it the way Bog does. Bog's approach seems easier to me but then this Driftwood guitar approach he may be using very thick laminates too.

Anyway as per usual there are lots of ways to accomplish the same task in luthiery.
Yeah the Driftwood guy uses about 2.25mm outer and 2mm inner sides but the whole vacuum pump technique is beyond my skill/tool level. I've see about 4 different methods across the web making your last comment most relevant and thanks very much for the comment.

If I can find some scrap I'll try bending both sides at once as it seems most methods aren't dependent on perfectly bent sides to begin with.
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  #11  
Old 01-10-2022, 12:49 PM
redir redir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LHawes View Post
Yeah the Driftwood guy uses about 2.25mm outer and 2mm inner sides but the whole vacuum pump technique is beyond my skill/tool level. I've see about 4 different methods across the web making your last comment most relevant and thanks very much for the comment.

If I can find some scrap I'll try bending both sides at once as it seems most methods aren't dependent on perfectly bent sides to begin with.
You could do a hybrid of those methods too. IOW bend the sides thick and then instead of a vacuum rig use the Bogdanovich style clamping system.
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  #12  
Old 01-10-2022, 01:11 PM
LHawes LHawes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redir View Post
You could do a hybrid of those methods too. IOW bend the sides thick and then instead of a vacuum rig use the Bogdanovich style clamping system.
NICE - gets my brain working - thanks.
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  #13  
Old 01-13-2022, 07:47 AM
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morgankelsey morgankelsey is offline
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I've been experimenting with this as well. I'm doing two sides, both .065" thick, so .13" final thickness. My stack looks like:
Metal
Wood
Blanket
Wood
Metal
With wood wrapped in damp craft paper.

I have a specific reason for trying to do it, I'm working on some guitars that will have tongue drums in the sides and cutting the drums once the sides are bent is pretty difficult.

It works reasonably well, but I wouldn't do it if I didn't have to. It also only works for a non cutaway.

I also tried laminating them while still flat with polyurethane glue and bending them before it fully sets, and after it has fully set (some polys can withstand heat to around 300F). Those experiments didn't go as well, it either separates before being fully set or is too stiff and breaks once fully set.
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