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  #16  
Old 07-21-2017, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Trevor B. View Post
No doubt you're right but a Neumann or Schoeps in the right hands, mmmmm good!
Quite true and in reality goes for a number of different higher quality brands, that inhabit the pro studio world, besides just those two.
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  #17  
Old 07-21-2017, 12:01 PM
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A friend of mine bought a U87 for her home voice over studio. She has had difficulty with the mic due to room acoustics and less than perfect mic technique. IMHO a U87 is not a great mic for an amateur getting started. It can be extremely unforgiving.

Recording studios are designed by architects who specialize in acoustic design. They are built for recording music. A high end mic that sounds great in RCA Studio A in NYC may sound awful in your small home studio. It's a question of choosing the horse for the course.

These days there are so many affordable good mics that if your recording sounds bad it's not because of your microphone. Check out the Rode NTK mic and some of the better Audio Technica mics too.
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  #18  
Old 07-21-2017, 12:48 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Several people in this thread have said or implied that a good mic in the hands of an amateur probably won't deliver stellar results. That's true, but it's also true that any mic can be unforgiving in the hands of someone that doesn't understand how to use it. It's also true that not every mic, high end or otherwise, will sound good on every person.

Many here have discouraged the OP from buying a high quality mic. If the OP is intent on building a top quality studio, and if money is not an impediment, there's no reason why he should have to spend years recording on lesser quality gear.

The OP listed some good mics that produce very different results. What you get from a U87 is not similar to what you get from a U47. That tells me the OP still has a lot of homework to do before he makes a purchase but it doesn't tell me that he should be focusing on gear of lesser quality. Whether his initial purchase is a pile of great gear or a pile of okay gear, he's still going to have a learning curve ahead of him and he's not going to be impeded by the higher ceiling the great gear will offer him. If he's intent on building a great studio, buying better gear upfront might even be more economical since he won't be buying cheaper stuff that he'll want to replace in a year or two.

I think the first order of the day would be to get educated. Rent some time in a good studio, try a bunch of different microphones, record something, observe the process from start to finish. This may be a much more complicated process than the OP realizes. It certainly not for everyone. But if he decides he really wants to do this, and he wants to start with high end gear, and if the money is not an issue, I say go for it.
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  #19  
Old 07-21-2017, 06:04 PM
Hurricane Ramon Hurricane Ramon is offline
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In perfect world - yeah they are worth it - you betcha . Depends on your goal too .

You can get a hit recording with a lap top , and a relatively inexpensive 48VDC phantom powered condenser mic(s) ,
DAW and single/dual channel analog interface track at a time . The Focusrite or cheaper yet the Berhringer are really
inexpensive interfaces ( $99.00 ) and will do justice to any mic period .

People all over the internet savvy world are doing this daily as you read this .

Less has proven the best in this scenario for a few years now , the studios are dying off one by one to the home
recording musicians . The studio environment will never really die off , only the strong though will
survive as musician's use the empowerment described above . All you need is the material , gear & talent .

Many who are really famous in EDM , guys like DubFX and others have proven low tech works .

Acoustic players world wide are doing it too with ukulele , violin , & guitars ectcetera and live with these interfaces ,
mics & laptops and selling their product using SM57's & 58's and cheaper . One that comes to mind is this monster :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gphiFVVtUI

I'd love a Neumann but - one of those would bust my budget a long while .

I've researched it a lot , listened to friend's recording set ups , maybe
one day I'll be able to nail one down but till then I'm really happy with my
[Gold Sputtered ] 48VDC phantom powered large diaphragm that wasn't a
budget buster and sounds really decent along with a industry standard dynamic on my :
  • Dreads
  • 000 nylon classical acoustic
  • 000 resonator
  • Ukulele - soprano & tenor
  • Chromatic & diatonic harmonics
  • Vocal

EZ :

HR
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Last edited by Kerbie; 07-22-2017 at 03:42 AM. Reason: Removed masked profanity
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  #20  
Old 07-22-2017, 01:07 AM
midwinter midwinter is offline
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As others are saying, there are a LOT of factors to consider hereómostly what you need it for. When I was trying to decide on my first serious instrument mic, I went to a friend's studio and shot out something like 10 mics, ranging from the humble SM57 (which sounded pretty good!) to very expensive Neumanns. But I was looking for a mic that I could use on my playing my guitar; my little studio is built for me to record my stuff. If it works for other people, that's just an added benefit. I'm still looking for the mic I like best for my voice (I've got a few that a use, depending on what sound I'm looking for).

Consider this: you can get some workhorse mics that aren't as expensive as the Neumanns that will serve you just fine until you start dropping even more money on preamps and interfaces and plugins. Then you can sell off older gear to finance newer, better gear.

(For instance, I just picked up a Warm Audio WA87 that is a multi-pattern LDC that is proving very useful for a variety of purposes. You can get them on Ebay for less than $600.)
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  #21  
Old 07-22-2017, 07:12 AM
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Let's see where to start, to try to separate fact from fiction, reality from myth, and the subjective from objective?

Fiction : High end mic/gear is only suitable for professional studios and highly experienced professional engineers.

Fact : There are many very real down earth situations (including many many home situations) where high end gear may be well "worth the price".

Fact: " Worth the Price" is totally subjective and individually specific.

Myth : A high end mic is not suitable for a beginner

Reality: A beginner may not yet have the knowledge or skill to get the sum total of benefits from high end gear --or mid level gear --or low end gear for that matter . Which in an of itself is absolutely not a reason to not get better quality gear.

Fact: the digital age has brought a certain level of accessibility and democratization to recording

Fact: Because of digital tech and new mfg techs the cost of good quality equipment has come way down.


Fact: High end gear is no longer a requirement to produce good quality recordings
BUT------
Fact: with some (if relatively rare exception) most of the better recordings are typically done on high-mid to high end gear.

As for the OP the objective answer is :
Yes Neumann and most other mics, in that price category are in fact well worth the money , which has nothing to do with whether they should buy one.
There are far to many factors and variable at play and the OP has not disclosed what kind of recording he is going to be doing so it is basically imposible to determine what kind of mic let alone what brand might be best suited value and performance wise
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Last edited by KevWind; 07-22-2017 at 11:15 AM.
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  #22  
Old 07-22-2017, 07:49 AM
tammuz7000 tammuz7000 is offline
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I think I would start off with landing on a new MacBook Pro and interface and software such as logic before the mic. Also good quality instruments is a must have. Lots of choices on mics but I would make sure you have the foundation down.

If you just want to hear yourself for practicing and post some songs, check out a zoom h5 or h6. Better yet for seeing and hearing would be a zoom q2

Tom
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  #23  
Old 07-22-2017, 08:49 AM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Let's see where to start, to try to separate fact from fiction, reality from myth, and the subjective from objective?

Fiction : High end mic/gear is only suitable for professional studios and highly experienced professional engineers.

Fact : There are many very real down earth situations (including many many home situations) where high end gear may be well "worth the price".

Fact: " Worth the Price" is totally subjective and individually specific.

Myth : A high end mic is not suitable for a beginner

Reality: A beginner may not yet have the knowledge or skill to get the sum total of benefits from high end gear --or mid level gear --or low end gear for that matter . Which in an of itself is absolutely not a reason to not get better quality gear.

Fact: the digital age has brought a certain level of accessibility and democratization to recording

Fact: Because of digital tech and new mfg techs the cost of good quality equipment has come way down.


Fact: High end gear is no longer a requirement to produce good quality recordings
BUT------
Fact: with some (if relatively rare exception) most of the better recordings are typically done on high-mid to high end gear.

As for the OP the objective answer is :
Yes Neumann and most other mics, in that price category are in fact well worth the money , which has nothing to do with whether or he you should buy one.
There are far to many factors and variable at play and the OP has not disclosed what kind of recording he is going to be doing so it is basically imposible to determine what kind of mic let alone what brand might be best suited value and performance wise
I see what you did there.
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  #24  
Old 07-22-2017, 09:32 AM
Trevor B. Trevor B. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Quite true and in reality goes for a number of different higher quality brands, that inhabit the pro studio world, besides just those two.
Couldn't agree more. Good quality mikes are important but there's so much more to recording than the brand of microphones we prefer and this thread is pointing that out in spades. That said, if a really good deal were to come along on a Neumann or pair of Schoeps I'd be very tempted.
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  #25  
Old 07-22-2017, 09:37 AM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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Yah know, I wouldn't kick an AudioTechnica AT4060 or AT5040 out of bed either. AT makes mostly mid range mics, but from time to time they flex their design muscles pop out a stunner just to show they can.

I didn't make a typo above. I do mean the AT5040.

https://tyfordaudiovideo.blogspot.co...hragm.html?m=1

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  #26  
Old 07-22-2017, 09:45 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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My Flea 47 ended the search for a better vocal mic for myself. It's worth every penny.
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  #27  
Old 07-22-2017, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
My Flea 47 ended the search for a better vocal mic for myself. It's worth every penny.
I'll bet, they get rave reviews. Personally I opted for a Brauner Phantom V over a U87ai for vocals , but it was a tough decision.
I keep getting periodically tempted to go to the Cathedral Pipes "Notre Dame" for a tube U47 -ish type mic, and for something different than the Brauner, but haven't wanted to put up the mula (Yet)
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Last edited by KevWind; 07-22-2017 at 11:16 AM.
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  #28  
Old 07-22-2017, 11:43 AM
Fran Guidry Fran Guidry is offline
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I poke fun at the Gearslutz mentality but must admit that I visit the Remote section regularly. I stumbled over this thread there and it seems applicable to a lot of "which mic" discussions:

The Mics You have Dumped, and Why...

Fran
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  #29  
Old 07-22-2017, 12:53 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Originally Posted by Fran Guidry View Post
I'm about to or have dumped plenty of mics, not all of them bad.

Among them are...
Blue Kiwi - it's a good mic with a U87 flavor but if you run it through a good tube pre it's really beautiful.
Earthworks SR30 - a little tricky to position but once you have it right it gives a lovely upper frequency sparkle.
ADK A6 - I bought a pair of these because back in the day DreamGuitars was using a pair to record tracks by Al Petteway. They're very accurate for acoustic guitar. Nothing is hyped. Great bang for the buck.

All good mics but I eventually found mics I liked better for my specific purposes. At this point I only have four mics that I can say are definitely staying: the Flea 47, a Lauten Audio Atlantis, and a pair of Gefell M295 sdc mics.

I'd love to add a couple of quality ribbon mics to that list but my room, while treated, is too small to get good results. I don't have another room that would be any better, so I'm stuck for now. In 11 months I'll be retired and my plan is to move and triple my house size. I'll be looking for a place that has a room suitable to building a nice semi-pro home studio where I'll be able to take on projects other than my own. Very much looking forward to that.
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  #30  
Old 07-22-2017, 03:35 PM
alohachris alohachris is offline
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Default Nice GS Thread Fran

Aloha Fran,

I know about that "GS mentality" over at gearslutz. I reference GS for others, but mostly crack up reading the "High End" opinions & venomous debates among long-time, gear-head, internet adversaries. I like GS for the USED GEAR classifieds & also for being able to create discussions with some of the best engineers & producers who ever lived.

The thread you shared IS funny. I mean, you can really feel the hate & contempt that people have for some of the mic's they've owned, as if it were personal. Ha!

To which I'll add, considering the OP's question about Neumann microphone's, the Neumann TLM 103. It didn't work for anyone's vocals or any of the guitars I tried to record using it. It was a thousand dollar dog. For some voices, an SM58 sounded way better than the TLM 103.

I know some will strongly disagree, but I felt that you could usually do better than any of Neumann's TLM series of mic's. For example, some like the TLM 170 as a mid-range mic used with stereo SDC's. But with much better offerings like the AEA 84 & 88 or new N22, who needs the TLM?

I've auditioned, owned & dumped thousands of mic's in my time, including some of the classics like U47's & 48's, C10s, 251's, KSM44A's, U86's, 87's & 89's & all kinds of 47 clones. etc. For me, the Neumann TLM 103 was the biggest let down. A real dog, IMO and many agree.

Which mic's did I wish I'd never dumped?

A pair of mint AKG EB352 SDC 's adapted for CK-1 caps that I got from Will Ackerman in 1981. Loved them for years. And...

A very nice pair of Peluso P-28 tube SDC mic's that I loved as well.

Guys, check out those Peluso P-28's. Great sleeper mic's for acoustic guitar & NOT expensive. Captures the real natural, fat sound of your guitar with no hype. Loves being paired with an A Designs Pacifica preamp.

Also, some great tube mic's lend themselves to experimentation with various tubes. The differences between those & their stock counterparts can sometimes be huge (I know Fran, you & Doug don't like such strong language when decribing gear differences - but it's true for me!).

Thanks for sharing, Fran!

alohachris

Last edited by alohachris; 07-23-2017 at 11:29 AM.
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