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  #76  
Old 02-02-2010, 01:32 PM
raptordigits raptordigits is offline
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A few years ago the retiring conductor of our city's philharmonic orchestra made a very pointed observation. He was asked about the state of music (the asker was assuming he would bemoan the decline clasical trained musicians)

His words were something to the effect that there had been nothing more stifling to music creativity than the rise in predominance of the student/teacher/piano trio in the 19th century....

AND. In contrast, there has been nothing more positive than rise of the teenage boy sitting on the edge of his bed enthusiastically lasting out 'who know's what' bizarre sounds from his electric guitar.

There is nothing 'better' about the use of standard notation unless one sees music as some chore to accomplish...that there is a fixed 'getting it right'... as opposed to a creative process.
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  #77  
Old 02-02-2010, 01:34 PM
Brent Hutto Brent Hutto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
? Well that clears up things.
Oh my goodness, really? That was most certainly not my intent.
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  #78  
Old 02-02-2010, 02:16 PM
CottonPickin CottonPickin is offline
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[QUOTE=Losov;2109044]The only thing that has "beauty and flavor" is the music itself. QUOTE]

Oh no, notes on a staff have great beauty, at least to me. They are visually beautiful, and they "sing" to me. I hear them in my mind.
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  #79  
Old 02-02-2010, 02:20 PM
Brent Hutto Brent Hutto is offline
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I have heard the notes on the staff singing, each to each. I do not think that they will sing to me.
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  #80  
Old 02-02-2010, 02:28 PM
CraigRyder CraigRyder is offline
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Originally Posted by Brent Hutto View Post
I have heard the notes on the staff singing, each to each. I do not think that they will sing to me.
That is not what he meant at all. That is not it, at all
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  #81  
Old 02-02-2010, 02:33 PM
CottonPickin CottonPickin is offline
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Just wondering, did any of you learn to read music in school?

I was in elementary school in the 1950s. My school had an excellent music program, not just for the musicians, but required for everyone. Every kid had to learn to read music! Not sure if they all did, but I did and was able to teach myself to play the piano just from my elementary school music classes.

Something tells me schools aren't doing that these days. Too bad, it's an important part of cultural literacy.

If you read English fluently and someone handed you a great novel written in shorthand I bet it would bug you, for the reasons I mentioned in my original post.

But thanks, I've learned a lot from this discussion about why many guitarists do appreciate tabs.
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  #82  
Old 02-02-2010, 02:48 PM
Brent Hutto Brent Hutto is offline
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I was born in 1960 and nobody I know learned to read music in school. Those of us who took band or chorus did, of course. But other than learning to tap rhythms with sticks in kindergarten or whatever it wasn't part of a general educational program.

Then again I also learned it in the piano lessons my mother made me take and in church choir practice. Maybe even some other place I've forgotten. It's not exactly obscure knowledge.
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  #83  
Old 02-02-2010, 03:02 PM
Losov Losov is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CottonPickin View Post
Just wondering, did any of you learn to read music in school?

I was in elementary school in the 1950s. My school had an excellent music program, not just for the musicians, but required for everyone. Every kid had to learn to read music!
Yeah! I was one of those kids! Same time frame. This woman used to show up once a week (reeking of perfume) and absolutely bore the hell out of and confuse us for an hour. She didn't use a piano or anything, just chalk on a board. We had no idea what this was all about, but we memorized the staffs, notes, key signatures and spit it all back on the tests. It wasn't until many years later when I was teaching myself guitar that I racked my brain trying to remember all this seeming nonsense. NOW it made some sense!

Maybe it's because I hated my early experience that the notes don't "sing" to me until I play them.
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  #84  
Old 02-02-2010, 03:42 PM
Allman_Fan Allman_Fan is offline
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One thing I never liked about beginning piano books of popular vocal songs is that they were arranged with the melody in the right hand and some kind of chord with the left. Have you ever tried to sing with this? SLS!

Imagine "Tutti-Fruiti" "Great Ball of Fire" "Piano Man" . . . this was terrible. After a while, I'd get the sheet music with the guitar chords on it and just improvise using the chords, sometimes I'd look at some of the passing notes. Sounded better and more like the original than what was written.
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  #85  
Old 02-02-2010, 03:59 PM
HHP HHP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wcap View Post
Tablature maps out the fingerings on the instrument, but standard notation shows the flow of the notes in a direct way. Even with my rudimentary music reading skills, I can look at a melody in standard notation and, more or less, work out how the tune goes in my head, or sing it (I'm not great at this, but some folks in the choir I sing in are).

A person who is really good with reading standard notation can go further than this - some folks can read a more complicated musical score and hear all the parts and harmonies and such in their heads.

I doubt that few if any people can do this with tablature.
I would say that depends on the quality and take taken in the tablature. Again, I don't know of anything you can notate in standard that cannot be duplicated in tab if you choose to do so.

There are certainly cases where tab is superior, such as when using open tunings.
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  #86  
Old 02-02-2010, 05:32 PM
mmmaak mmmaak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hutto View Post
Perhaps friend Mmmaak can be our Hhheegel.
Sorry, it was about 4am here when you posted that. Late, even for me!

I think what Brent was trying to say is that Aristotle is better than Plato

Quote:
Originally Posted by HHP View Post
I would say that depends on the quality and take taken in the tablature. Again, I don't know of anything you can notate in standard that cannot be duplicated in tab if you choose to do so.
Are you referring to hybrid tab? That actually takes many cues from standard notation in order to convey playing information. Conventional tab is much more limited; it does not show timing and multiple voices, among other things.

(note that this is coming from someone who enjoys both reading and writing tab)
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  #87  
Old 02-02-2010, 06:06 PM
Brent Hutto Brent Hutto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmaak View Post
Sorry, it was about 4am here when you posted that. Late, even for me!

I think what Brent was trying to say is that Aristotle is better than Plato
Sorry for the confusion. I'd probably have done better to say you could act as our Kkkaant rather than referencing Hegel. How lazy of me and at such a late, late hour.

We can't access music as a thing-in-itself but only perceive its manifestations. Perhaps through sufficiently clever Hybrid Tab we can at least become maximally cognizant of those manifestations through playing the guitar.

Or maybe not.
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  #88  
Old 02-28-2010, 09:56 PM
dark_enstein dark_enstein is offline
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well i guess you don't have to love tabs, since you understand how to read standard notation dude, but I think you have to understand tabs not loving it, its just about to "enrich" your knowledge in music..

even my own self really want to be able reading standard notation. But I can't
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