Bose S1 Pro outdoors...

[mniels]

So, I have been using a single Bose S1 for smaller bar gigs and it has been fantastic. I am starting to book some winery gigs for the spring, the majority of which will be outside shows.

Anyone playing outdoors with the S1s. I would imagine I would have to add a second regardless, just wondering what the opinions on sound carry, etc. are.

I have seen a lot of people playing the Fishman SA330X at the these types of shows, and they sound good, but I would prefer to stick with the same system for everything if possible, and I have been very happy with the Bose.

Thanks for the input!

[Methos1979]

You'd be surprised how loud the S1 can get outside with a some pre-amping. If you need to cover a huge area or get over a lot of people/noise then you might need two but I was quite surprised with how loud it got outside. I even A/B'd against a QSC k8.2 and while the QSC was definitely louder, it was not really all that much louder.

Click on my Bose link down in my signature for my NAD thread. There are two videos of the Bose being played outside.

[dcopper]

I play outside at a patio bar at the beach and have used the S1. On one particular day it was extremely hot and the S1 had to compete with three industrial fans mounted in the lattice work overhead. The S1 did very well. That was the only time so far that I had to crank the volume up a little past halfway.
I have no concerns about depending on the battery power either. The S1 has done very well in any venue so far.

I am thinking about the backpack, although the slip cover works fine for now.
davidc

[Turp]

I've been there. I do not have a S1 and am very interested in it, but do have a lot of experience using the SA220 and 330X. I played them in a variety of settings and they have really good power and dispersion/presence.

That said, you already having a S1, adding another, would provide additional presence outdoors and in larger venues than the single you use. You would also benefit from have the availability of battery power.

Lastly, you'd have a matched pair. It may be a OCD/Vanity thing, but even though the sound was always great and it was a trivial thing, I really didn't care for the look of my Powered 10" PA "box" paired with my partners Fishman "tower", when we played larger rooms. Now we have a SA220 and a SA330 so the pair match visually.

The main benefit I can offer regarding a Fishman SA is the power and dispersion. We use a single Fishman in some noisy settings and easily cut through the mix. With our Jazz band, I play my acoustic through it and we run a mic for the flutist. This band has electric guitar, Bass, drums, Sax, and trumpet, and I have no problem cutting through.

For some additional info see this post: https://www.bosepro.community/g/port...ic/bose-s1-pro.

Since you have experience with the S1, if you have the opportunity, try out a second S1 in a large setting and see if it works.

[The Kid!]

I don’t know how people use such small systems outdoors. I mean, I wish I could, but my small system is a Yorkville NX720S 15” powered sub and a Line 6 L3T for FOH, and a Line 6 L2M for a floor monitor. I use a Rolls Tiny 2 way crossover and an Allen & Heath Zed 10FX. This is for Solo/Duo work. Trio gets a bigger Zed 60 14FX board and the band gets more FOH speakers and monitors for the stage.

It’s not even about a lot more volume. It’s about fullness and (when needed) punch. I’d rather have a bigger system working well within its capabilities, than a single two way shouting it’s lungs out.

Not to mention, this small 4 way system sounds cleaner and smoother at any volume than anything I’ve heard out there. Mid sweeps on the board and decent guitar preamps (Tonedexter into a Red Eye)

Indoors or outdoors, I can get a killer sound. I can make notoriously bad sounding rooms sound great too as long as I have mid sweeps on the board.

I’d love to have a 15lb speaker that could keep up, I just haven’t found one. I did demo my friends S1, and I thought it sounded fine for strumming and singing. I didn’t love how the guitar sounded, but it was decent. I wanted to like it enough to buy one and gig it.

He offered to have another employee get me one for $350 (some employee/Bose hook up) and I couldn’t even justify it at that price. Even as a monitor, I greatly prefer the Line 6 L2M.

[Groovekings]

Totally agree. The S1 may be a fine speaker, but it's intended for very small audiences in quiet rooms. Even the Bose L1 Compact, it's bigger brother is only suitable up to a certain audience size. Buy the S1 if you like it by all means. But don't try to shoehorn it into situations it is not intended for. It won't do the job and you will be hard on the unit trying to force it to do so

When playing outside it requires a lot of sound go cover even a moderate audience properly. I use two powered 10's and a sub to do even 200 people. And it's only just enough. Use the right tool for the job. My 2 pennies.

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by Groovekings

Totally agree. The S1 may be a fine speaker, but it's intended for very small audiences in quiet rooms. Even the Bose L1 Compact, it's bigger brother is only suitable up to a certain audience size. Buy the S1 if you like it by all means. But don't try to shoehorn it into situations it is not intended for. It won't do the job and you will be hard on the unit trying to force it to do so

When playing outside it requires a lot of sound go cover even a moderate audience properly. I use two powered 10's and a sub to do even 200 people. And it's only just enough. Use the right tool for the job. My 2 pennies.

I think you guys are also playing to much larger audiences then many of us on this thread are. I say this because you state "even 200 hundred people' like that's a small gig for you. Plus, I notice that you have a bass player so you obviously need that 'punch' where many of do not. Apples and oranges, so a certain degree.

By the way, I checked out your Facebook page - loved the video of Brandy with the beautiful, colorful twilight behind you guys blacked out. Perfect! And great playing and singing, too!!

[mniels]

Great input from everybody. I was already kind of leaning toward an "outdoor system" vs an "indoor system."

Very good point about the scope of the gigs. Most places I would play outdoors are pretty cozy as far as that goes, but I do get the point about the fullness of the sound. I worked as a DJ for 10 years, and was always a fan of have more than you need rather than the other way around.

[lkingston]

Musicians insisting on playing too loud is one of the main reasons there are so few places left to play. That and ridiculous ASCAP fees.

[Davis Webb]

I use the S1 ONLY outdoors so I can comment. It does the job. You won't max it out. If you do, you will be blowing away the eardrums of the people closest to you

Its excellent. However, you might need to preamp your guitar.

My J45 is perfect. Can only take it to half volume before they ask me to turn it down.

My Taylor 114 needs MAJOR signal boost going in or I have to crank its channel volume.

But in a word, they sound awesome outdoors.

[Murphy Slaw]

Originally Posted by Methos1979

you state "even 200 hundred people' like that's a small gig for you.

The S1 isn't designed for those gigs and everybody knows that.

[Turp]

Originally Posted by The Kid!

I don’t know how people use such small systems outdoors. I mean, I wish I could, but my small system is a Yorkville NX720S 15” powered sub and a Line 6 L3T for ....

Some of our music styles and gigs just don't require a lot of equipment for outdoor settings.

I'm of the position, keep it as simple as possible to provide a great overall experience for patrons. In my observation, most of the venues discussed here are not music concert or performance settings, rather they are settings where music is added to provide a better experience for patrons. The performer really has to evaluate customer expectations.

For his outdoor winery setting, I think the Op wants to expand the intimate listening experience he provides at indoor gigs to outdoor settings.

[Peter Z]

Speaker power doesn’t depend only on the size of the audience and the covered area. A loud audience will need double the volume thus 10 times more Watt or a better efficiency of 10dB.
If you need a pumping bass that’s about four times the power you need compared to a vocals and acoustic guitar setup at the same volume.

A typical YamelectroQSCvoice speaker is now rated with 2000 watts. That’s the power of a mobile heating device with glowing wires. Typically, half of the 2000 watts is pumped into the woofer, the other half into the horndriver. You should never believe that those little devices can stand such an input.
You would turn those speakers into … heating devices, only for a short time.
A good 10” or 12” speaker will take 300 to 350 watts in reality. The additional power will be limited away. Might be good for some short time impulses, may sound good, but will not add loudness.
If you add uncompressed drums to the game you will need some of this headroom but most players in this forum don’t have uncompressed/unlimited drums in their setup. And if you want to amplify acoustic drums a 10” or 12” speaker will not be enough any way.

Now, of you take such a typical 300 watt speaker, even when labeled with a 2000 watt sticker) it will produce about 118 dB. Efficiency about 93 dB SPLm.
A speaker with the same efficiency with 40 watts (maybe something like the S1) will produce 109 dB. Thus a 2000 watt speaker will create additional 9 dB or, in other words, will be roughly twice as loud. Not more.

Now it is important what power you need for your event. If you are in a winery with 60 listeners talking and drinking you will want less than 80 dB in a distance of 8 meter from your speaker. They will force you to turn down otherwise. To get those 80 dB in 8 meters you need 3 (!!!) watts, still with a speaker efficiency of 93 dBm).

We want to add 10 dB headroom for short time peaks. Now we need 32 watts. Not more.

That’s all and that is why many musicians feel comfortable with low wattage speakers. How those speakers sound is much more important to them.

Maybe you want to take a look into some useful information, crown provided. And beware that they produce amplifiers and are not interested to convince you to buy low wattage amps!
Also you can find lots of good info (in German and English) if you google “Sengspiel”.

https://www.crownaudio.com/en-US/too...power_required
https://www.crownaudio.com/how-much-amplifier-power

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by Peter Z

Speaker power doesn’t depend only on the size of the audience and the covered area. A loud audience will need double the volume thus 10 times more Watt or a better efficiency of 10dB.
If you need a pumping bass that’s about four times the power you need compared to a vocals and acoustic guitar setup at the same volume.

A typical YamelectroQSCvoice speaker is now rated with 2000 watts. That’s the power of a mobile heating device with glowing wires. Typically, half of the 2000 watts is pumped into the woofer, the other half into the horndriver. You should never believe that those little devices can stand such an input.
You would turn those speakers into … heating devices, only for a short time.
A good 10” or 12” speaker will take 300 to 350 watts in reality. The additional power will be limited away. Might be good for some short time impulses, may sound good, but will not add loudness.
If you add uncompressed drums to the game you will need some of this headroom but most players in this forum don’t have uncompressed/unlimited drums in their setup. And if you want to amplify acoustic drums a 10” or 12” speaker will not be enough any way.

Now, of you take such a typical 300 watt speaker, even when labeled with a 2000 watt sticker) it will produce about 118 dB. Efficiency about 93 dB SPLm.
A speaker with the same efficiency with 40 watts (maybe something like the S1) will produce 109 dB. Thus a 2000 watt speaker will create additional 9 dB or, in other words, will be roughly twice as loud. Not more.

Now it is important what power you need for your event. If you are in a winery with 60 listeners talking and drinking you will want less than 80 dB in a distance of 8 meter from your speaker. They will force you to turn down otherwise. To get those 80 dB in 8 meters you need 3 (!!!) watts, still with a speaker efficiency of 93 dBm).

We want to add 10 dB headroom for short time peaks. Now we need 32 watts. Not more.

That’s all and that is why many musicians feel comfortable with low wattage speakers. How those speakers sound is much more important to them.

Maybe you want to take a look into some useful information, crown provided. And beware that they produce amplifiers and are not interested to convince you to buy low wattage amps!
Also you can find lots of good info (in German and English) if you google “Sengspiel”.

https://www.crownaudio.com/en-US/too...power_required
https://www.crownaudio.com/how-much-amplifier-power

Exactly right! Speaker drivers turn most of the power delivered to them (>>90%) into heat and 2KW in a small plastic box would be hotter than a toaster oven if the drivers could last long enough.

Power ratings are marketing these days not based on any standard methodology. I think we can prove that a 2 kW speaker powered speaker can only produce that for the 10 dB peaks of a 200 watt continuous output level (10:1 peak to average ratio is a good rule of thumb). What we don't know is if the 40 watt unpublished Bose power rating is equivalent to the 2 kW peak or the 200 watt continuous (which needs 2 kW peaks if there is to be very low distortion). If the 40 corresponds to the 2 kW, then it is really only capable of 4 watts continuous with no distortion, which is still pretty loud as the above example points out, but still something you need to try to know for sure it will handle your gigs.

Regrettably, unlike comparing a 50 watt Marshal stack to a Fender Super Reverb (the good old days of a standard, if not really relevant to hifi way to measure power), you've got to try these small amps out yourself.

But rest assured anything that runs off of 8 AA batteries and claims 50 watts (Boss/Roland) is taking power marketing to the next level!

[Peter Z]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

I think we can prove that a 2 kW speaker powered speaker can only produce that for the 10 dB peaks of a 200 watt continuous output level (10:1 peak to average ratio is a good rule of thumb). What we don't know is if the 40 watt unpublished Bose power rating is equivalent to the 2 kW peak or the 200 watt continuous (which needs 2 kW peaks if there is to be very low distortion). If the 40 corresponds to the 2 kW, then it is really only capable of 4 watts continuous with no distortion, which is still pretty loud as the above example points out, but still something you need to try to know for sure it will handle your gigs.

I think the 103dB (109dB peak) mentioned on the S1 site are quite correct. I will measure that someday. 103dB and an efficiency of 93dB SPL in 1 meter results in 10 watts. 109dB with the same efficiency means 40 watts. Thus the Bose figures sound reasonable to me. I'm sure the peak reserve of only 6dB is due to some clever limiting. This is possible with sources like voices or guitars - not with drums!

Also the capacity of the battery fits more or less into that: 25 volts and 80 watthours. I you run it for 6 hours that is 13,3 watts. The Speaker will turn off if the capacity is down to 30%, otherwise the battery is dead. So real 30% are 0% shown on the battery light.
That leaves us with about 10 watts.

BUT, as Jon said: Don't underestimate 10 real watts!
I had a 1 watt guitar tube amp once. Playing with that through a 4x12 box was LOUD!