How to fix intonation ?

[D. Shelton]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

You can measure all of the frets for a full map of the instrument, but the most important one's are the first fret and the 12th fret. They are the minimum necessary to assess nut placement and saddle placement.

Okay, but if I drop $60 or whatever for the tuner that tells me cents, I'm going to do a bit more than the minimum. So, is there a "cheapo" unit that's adequate for the job; it's not something I see a big need to spend a lot on, since I won't use it often. I'm not understanding from the descriptions whether or not the inexpensive strobe tuners display the correct information for this. A call to Peterson is in order, unless you or someone here knows exactly of a unit that does what we need here, but isn't overly pricey ($139 seems like a lot, but if that's what it takes, that's what it takes).

Muchas gracias!
DS

[John Arnold]

it's not something I see a big need to spend a lot on, since I won't use it often.

I still don't own one, and I have been repairing guitars full-time for 34 years. My ears, a ruler and a dial caliper are all I need to address intonation issues.

[D. Shelton]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

I still don't own one, and I have been repairing guitars full-time for 34 years. My ears, a ruler and a dial caliper are all I need to address intonation issues.

Heheh, well, I've been doing a certain thing for almost that long, and I'm as good as it gets. That thing is not repairing or working on the intonation of guitars

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by D. Shelton

A call to Peterson is in order, unless you or someone here knows exactly of a unit that does what we need here

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

One inexpensive option is an application for a phone, such as IStroboSoft by Peterson (less than $15).

If you have a "smart" phone, IStroboSoft will do what is needed. Some have argued better than (some of the) standalone Peterson strobe tuners.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

My ears, a ruler and a dial caliper are all I need to address intonation issues.

I did that for the first two decades as well. Later, I wanted objective data that my ears couldn't provide, so I bought a strobe tuner. For me, it makes things easier and more consistent.

[D. Shelton]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

If you have a "smart" phone, IStroboSoft will do what is needed. Some have argued better than (some of the) standalone Peterson strobe tuners.

Alas, my phone is developmentally disabled . Do you know if the cheapest stand alone gives cents ?

https://reverb.com/item/5654734-pete...n-strobe-tuner

I'd like to assume that it's stated 1/10 cent accuracy applies to being able to
to actually read the amount of tenths of cents , but I'd rather ask to make sure.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by D. Shelton

Alas, my phone is developmentally disabled . Do you know if the cheapest stand alone gives cents ?

https://reverb.com/item/5654734-pete...n-strobe-tuner

I'd like to assume that it's stated 1/10 cent accuracy applies to being able to
being able to actually read the amount of tenths of cents , but I'd rather ask to make sure.

I don't know what is the cheapest tuner calibrated in cents: you'll need to do some investigation. A quick search of Amazon shows they have many that are adequate, from as little as $25.

The stroboclip you linked will work for what you need. For your purposes, you don't need one that is accurate to 1/10 cent: +/- 1 cent is adequate. You need something beyond a red light indicating its out of tune and a green light indicating its in tune. Calibration in cents provides objective data that can be discussed.

[D. Shelton]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

I don't know what is the cheapest tuner calibrated in cents: you'll need to do some investigation. A quick search of Amazon shows they have many that are adequate, from as little as $25.

The stroboclip you linked will work for what you need. For your purposes, you don't need one that is accurate to 1/10 cent: +/- 1 cent is adequate. You need something beyond a red light indicating its out of tune and a green light indicating its in tune. Calibration in cents provides objective data that can be discussed.

------------- okay , that's the info I needed, thanks


Got it sorted ! reads in cents or pitch, has mic for acoustic instruments (good idea !) :
https://reverb.com/item/7539352-boss...with-metronome

[D. Shelton]

Dredging this up because I'm at the end of my patience with the guitar. Today I thought about asking if anyone wants to do the mods for me, so here I am sort of asking that (?). I did do the tuning measurements and probably wouldn't have much trouble doing the work myself , but ….. lots of things are more important . I'll probably do the measurements again .

OH!!!, does it matter if the strings are old , for the measuring ? Like, a year ?

[rick-slo]

That far up the neck compared to first position chords the string gauges can make a pretty big
difference (due to inharmonicity). You might play with string gauges to see what happens.

[Bruce Sexauer]

I read the first and last pages of this thread just now. Perhaps I have posted before, I didn’t look deeper. I think ballpark intonation on a guitar is simpler than my reading suggests.

There must be very close to NO relief in the neck, certainly not more than .010”, half that is better.

The nut MUST be as low as possible. Holding the string down against the third fret should yield a printer paper’s thickness gap between the string and the first fret. More than twice that is a complete non-starter.

With light gauge strings and an action measured at the 12th fret of 2/32” at the e and 3/32” at the E and the other string heights fully interpolated, then:

Assuming the .102” thick saddle top is a perfect bullnose shape (fulcrum in the center): On the e string the distance from the 12th fret to the leading edge of the saddle should be exactly the same as the distance from the 12th fret to the nut. The distance from the 12th fret to the leading edge of the saddle on the E string should be 5/32” greater than the e string.

The above will yield pro results but can be improved upon by cutting further compensation into the saddle’s top surface. The e goes back 1/3 the saddle thickness, the b goes back 2/3 the saddle thickness, the g goes all the way to the front, the E goes as far back as possible (3/4 saddle thickness or the saddle edge crumbles) and the a and d go on a straight line between the E and the g.

If the specifications of a guitar are any different than the ones I quoted, results will be “other”. These specs work for me on short or long scale, and MultiScale in the same range.

[D. Shelton]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

I read the first and last pages of this thread just now. Perhaps I have posted before, I didn’t look deeper. I think ballpark intonation on a guitar is simpler than my reading suggests.

There must be very close to NO relief in the neck, certainly not more than .010”, half that is better.

The nut MUST be as low as possible. Holding the string down against the third fret should yield a printer paper’s thickness gap between the string and the first fret. More than twice that is a complete non-starter.

With light gauge strings and an action measured at the 12th fret of 2/32” at the e and 3/32” at the E and the other string heights fully interpolated, then:

Assuming the .102” thick saddle top is a perfect bullnose shape (fulcrum in the center): On the e string the distance from the 12th fret to the leading edge of the saddle should be exactly the same as the distance from the 12th fret to the nut. The distance from the 12th fret to the leading edge of the saddle on the E string should be 5/32” greater than the e string.

The above will yield pro results but can be improved upon by cutting further compensation into the saddle’s top surface. The e goes back 1/3 the saddle thickness, the b goes back 2/3 the saddle thickness, the g goes all the way to the front, the E goes as far back as possible (3/4 saddle thickness or the saddle edge crumbles) and the a and d go on a straight line between the E and the g.

If the specifications of a guitar are any different than the ones I quoted, results will be “other”. These specs work for me on short or long scale, and MultiScale in the same range.

Hmmmm...like the commercial : "just ok is not ok ". Ballpark is where it is now and I hate it. "Pro" sounds acceptable, but "improved upon" is what I'm after . I do all sorts of handcrafted precision work on jewelry and die tooling but I'm not sure I want to jump right into a setup and saddle job like that. I'm fairly sure I don't , so I'd be in the market for a pro to do the work. Thanks for the explanation.

[John Arnold]

OH!!!, does it matter if the strings are old , for the measuring ? Like, a year ?

The strings must be perfectly uniform along their length. Old strings seldom meet that standard, because they can stretch unevenly. In fact, many brand new strings fail it, too.

[Bruce Sexauer]

Originally Posted by D. Shelton

, so I'd be in the market for a pro to do the work. Thanks for the explanation.

Looks like we may be in different universes.

[D. Shelton]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

Looks like we may be in different universes.

Meaning what, exactly ?
I do live in a low population density realm ...