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  #61  
Old 09-09-2019, 11:36 AM
TJNies TJNies is offline
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Originally Posted by gfirob View Post
First of all, the quality (sound) of the guitar is individual to that guitar, no matter what it cost or who built it. I worked with the Martin company on a project and in the process of working with them, I asked if I could choose the best OM 42 they had in their current stock of eight at the time. What was interesting was how different they all were from each other, even though they were built side by side on the same production line. And the best one was much better than the worst of them. It was about the individual guitar and all the random elements that go into the creation of an instrument.

I think there is a point of diminishing returns. I have owned pre-war rosewood Martin guitars that were simply not that great and much more modest guitars which really were great (for the kind of guitar they were).
I kind of ran the gamut with my experiences. I'd had a Japanese Sigma Martin DR-28 for years that sounded fine to me. Later I thought I'd get the real thing and bought an 000C-16RGTE. Definite step up in tone and playability.

Some years later, having some disposable income, researched better Martins. At a Martin Event I found a custom shop 00, done is Style 30 (rope binding on top, abalone sound hole ring, Foden fret markers). It was done with hide glue, scalloped braces, Adis / Mad; the works! This blew me and everyone else away in the shop, and I had to buy it. The MSRP was $9k (of course got it for the 60% bogey). To this day it astonishes me.

After that the same shop had a custom 000-42 with Guatemalan RW & Swiss Spruce. Gflrob mentioned trying several OM-42s, one of which was far better than the worst; I don't know if the standard 000-42 I compared was a bad one, but this custom went home with me. Again MSRP > $9k. eek. But soon what intrigued me about the 000-42 began to wane; too shimmery, and too many overtones. I sold it for a fair return.

I have since bought a couple Sinker mahogany Martins, each far less money than either of the other RWs, and am incredibly happy with them.

So, perhaps cost is not a good indicator in all cases.
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  #62  
Old 09-09-2019, 11:38 AM
jspe jspe is offline
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Default Just enjoy!

Back in the 1900's I was very fickle about buying North American. I've been through many guitars...dozens...and have enjoyed them all, usually giving them a few years and then trading or selling them for one reason or another.
Lately I have purchased some off-shore guitars that are absolutely amazing;a Takamine ef360, and a Yamaha L16.
Yet My 7 year old J-45 still stops people in their tracks wherever I play it, and my lovely old 1980 Larrivee L19, well... I'm taking it with me...
Just find one (or several!!) that turn the wheels for you. And just enjoy!
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  #63  
Old 09-09-2019, 11:47 AM
joeld joeld is offline
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One can expect the luthier-built guitars will have a lighter build, with strength and stiffness where needed from careful materials choices and shaping. Not always, but usually.

Factory-built guitars are almost always a bit overbuilt, leading to a stiffer less responsive, less lively feeling instrument.

For me, I find the value in the luthier approach over the factory approach. I like the way my guitar has a bounce in its step, rich & vibrant tone, and a wide range tof timbre. I'm not much of a player, but I still enjoy that sort of instrument.

Of course price and tone are not directly connected. If I sold my guitar for $200 rather than $5000, its tone wouldn't change. And like most of us, I'll play and have fun with pretty much any guitar within reach. If I didn't have a fancy guitar, life would still be grand.
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  #64  
Old 09-09-2019, 11:49 AM
rwhitney rwhitney is offline
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Expensive guitars have usually been well worth their cost to me: better tone and clarity, and the inspiration of excellent materials and workmanship motivate me to practice more, play better, and help me produce nicer recordings.

There have been occasions when an inexpensive guitar has worked fine, and some expensive guitars have been a pain; but having the right high-quality instrument -- which virtually always costs an arm and a leg -- is generally a wonderful thing.
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  #65  
Old 09-09-2019, 11:49 AM
EverettWilliams EverettWilliams is offline
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It’s all in the eye/ear of the beholder. OP is accustomed to a Taylor. Taylors consistently play well and produce a pretty consistent tone that many people like. Jumping from that guitar to a Collings isn’t going to display a huge leap in playability - because you’re starting from a good spot. Jumping to a 1930s Martin may feel like a downgrade - bar frets or huge necks don’t make it easier to play. From a tonal standpoint, I can figure out how most guitars want to be played and make them sound pretty good. But better guitars (which often cost more) have more potential in this regard. It’s not a direct link between cost and quality, but the really good stuff often costs more. A Taylor works like a Toyota - consistently competent, but never overwhelmingly inspiring - but that’s my take and that’s me. So, to me, yes, there is some correlation between the guitars I love and their cost - but I don’t love guitars for being expensive. I’ve played some blah pre-war Martins and I don’t get along with Somogyis and guitars built in that vein. I’m pretty confident I’ll find a higher proportion of inspiring stuff in the high end room, but I don’t think everything in the high end room is inspiring.

But if you’ve not spent a lot of time with high end guitars, you may not have picked up on the subtleties that make them standout to me. It’s not unlike wine - there’s a lot of perfectly good wine in the grocery store and if you haven’t spent a lot of time tasting different things, rarer things, lower production things, you may try one for the first time and think “that tastes like the alcoholic, acidic grape juice I got from the store - what’s the big deal?” And, if that’s the take away, good for you - your drinking life will be cheaper. But that denies the fact that for a lot of people who care about it and go down the rabbit hole that they’re deluding themselves with expensive bottles of a fungible product rather than recognizing that maybe it’s me - maybe I’m just not discerning enough and if I took the time to try to understand it, maybe I’d get it. The journey of curiosity is more important than the destination.

So, my guidance would be to keep trying and take the time. There are a lot of different flavors of higher end guitars. Some will “improve” on what you’re used to in a way you don’t like - that’s a good lesson. But some will surely give you more of what you like. The key is just taking the time to understand the potential of these other guitars. At the end of the day, you may say “good enough for me” and that’s a good outcome. But I’d posit that if you aren’t seeing guitars that cost more having any marginal advantage, you’re not looking hard or far enough.
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  #66  
Old 09-09-2019, 11:52 AM
Beakybird Beakybird is offline
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Taking this discussion hopefully to the level of the absurd, does anyone really think that Martin's D-200 Deluxe has 150 times the "worth" of a $1000 Martin dread to an actual player??? Sure, that player could sell it and then buy a less expensive guitar and a new car, but I mean just in terms of playing worth....
Those watch gears on that $150,000 Martin aren't only for aesthetic. They help the player with timing. So yes, it's worth it.
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  #67  
Old 09-09-2019, 12:22 PM
why2 why2 is offline
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Originally Posted by rwhitney View Post
Expensive guitars have usually been well worth their cost to me: better tone and clarity, and the inspiration of excellent materials and workmanship motivate me to practice more, play better, and help me produce nicer recordings.

There have been occasions when an inexpensive guitar has worked fine, and some expensive guitars have been a pain; but having the right high-quality instrument -- which virtually always costs an arm and a leg -- is generally a wonderful thing.
This has also been my experience. Having just acquired two expensive guitars which I have been lucky enough to play for hours every day has been a joy. I look forward to continuing this playing and learning until I can't.

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  #68  
Old 09-09-2019, 12:26 PM
JGinNJ JGinNJ is offline
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Some are, some aren't (worth it). It depends on the sound, style, and for some people, "mojo" or collectability.

I've had some revelations lately after getting a new digital recorder. I realized that as a player, in a quiet room, I'll hear a guitar much differently than a microphone or an audience. And neither care how much your guitar cost!

I bought an older laminate Yamaha, still in excellent shape and very playable, for a hundred bucks. I recorded it, my Martin DC-16, then D-35, on the same old swing tune, played same way. I could tell them apart, yes. The Yammie actually sounded more like one of my archtops, without amplification. Less vibrant, without the highs or as much resonance. That's actually a good thing for some styles! The D-35, much richer sound, of course. But I also noticed, there's a boominess to it, and the sustain and ringing notes made things muddled, notes stepping on each other. It was more noticeable hearing it on a recording. For the kind of music I play most of the time now, it's not the right guitar, anymore than you'd use a Stratocaster for bluegrass

With this new knowledge, I thought I'd go try a bunch of high-end Taylors- yet again! $3-5K. I know they're worth it to a lot of people, but I'd sooner buy a carved archtop for that kind of money.
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  #69  
Old 09-09-2019, 12:30 PM
rpguitar rpguitar is offline
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I've been playing guitar for about 43 years. But last year I decided to learn mandolin, an instrument I've ignored for my whole life and knew essentially nothing about.

I live in an area bereft of bluegrass culture, so there was only one store around with a small selection of decent mandolins. I was not planning to spend thousands as I would for a guitar, but I have no interest in buying low end instruments, so I was willing to part with about $1k for a first mandolin.

Each instrument sounded different - some were warm, some bright, some had more or fewer overtones, and so on. I could definitely tell that their playability was very variable, and that always matters. I ultimately let that aspect be my guide.

But since I mostly suck at playing them, the one that costs $10k seemed only marginally better than the one that costs $1000. I was "not that impressed" as the OP puts it. But that's on me, not the instruments. I am not capable of expressing myself to the point where a better tool would liberate me. I don't have the vocabulary or the technique (and never will).

So while I have numerous valuable guitars, it doesn't make any sense for me to have a mandolin of the same caliber. Since the OP is an admitted novice, I wouldn't expect him/her to appreciate a valuable guitar either. And that's...okay. In due time (or not)!
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  #70  
Old 09-09-2019, 12:33 PM
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If the OP's Taylor 110 sounds like this...

Avalon Ard Ri L2-320C:




then please tell me where I can get one.
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  #71  
Old 09-09-2019, 12:39 PM
Malcolm Kindnes Malcolm Kindnes is offline
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I haven't read all the replies on this post so this may have been stated already, but I would say if you have to ask the question, then no they are not worth it. I have a couple of "high end" guitars and a couple of cheap ones and when I play them most people can't tell the difference and those who can will agree that it is only a marginal difference.
You say you are a novice player, that will have a lot to do with it, as you gain expertise you may find that it is worth spending money on a better guitar, but until then just concentrate on playing.
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  #72  
Old 09-09-2019, 12:43 PM
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To summarise "Worth the money" is fundamentally subjective .
Critical listening is a learned skill that comes with experience and practice.
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  #73  
Old 09-09-2019, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beakybird View Post
Those watch gears on that $150,000 Martin aren't only for aesthetic. They help the player with timing. So yes, it's worth it.
Wow. I had no idea....
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  #74  
Old 09-09-2019, 02:17 PM
vindibona1 vindibona1 is offline
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There isn't any one simple answer. Much depends not only the skill of the player, but the ear of the player/listener as well as the guitar itself.

If the question/expectation: How much improvement will there be in sound and playability to dollars spent? The answer is that it is non-linear and can be extremely random as well. One will sometimes stumble on a <$500 guitar that will stand toe to toe with $2000+ guitars and some expensive guitar that are simply disappointing.

There is also the factor of workmanship and artistic presentation, name, vintage and accepted areas of "collectabiily". If you're happy with your 110 then consider yourself lucky.
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  #75  
Old 09-09-2019, 02:26 PM
Tnfiddler Tnfiddler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vindibona1 View Post
There isn't any one simple answer. Much depends not only the skill of the player, but the ear of the player/listener as well as the guitar itself.

If the question/expectation: How much improvement will there be in sound and playability to dollars spent? The answer is that it is non-linear and can be extremely random as well. One will sometimes stumble on a <$500 guitar that will stand toe to toe with $2000+ guitars and some expensive guitar that are simply disappointing.

There is also the factor of workmanship and artistic presentation, name, vintage and accepted areas of "collectabiily". If you're happy with your 110 then consider yourself lucky.
I've played quite a few of these and I've never seen it yet! Yes, some sounded great, but not that beat higher end models. Yes, I'm sure there are some amazing examples out there, but I'd say they're few and far between. But, once again it's going to be up to the individual listening to them AND the person playing them. I've heard the same guy play a $150 Yamaha and an 814ce DLX and they sounded the same because of the way he was playing them. As far as high-end guitars that were disappointing, I've seen that! There was a $10,000 Custom Shop Martin dread at NAMM that my D-41 would kick its tail all day long!
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