Good headphones for recording

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by mutantrock

I meant the M50 phones are just slightly boosted in the bass. The M50's have a flatter response than most any others in the 100-200 range, including the K 240 Studio which have a really good sound but are not even close to flat.

Do you have frequency response data on the M50 and K 240 Studio or is the above based on a subjective evaluation?

[mutantrock]

Herb,

http://www.headphone.com has the charts and spec's for headphones. Best resource I have found.
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[KevWind]

Here is the mentioned chart. Looks fairly close, hard to say which one is actually flatter Seems to me a bit more mid range bump in the 240 but a bit less over all modulation . So interpret as you will.

[bobby b]

Just about every studio I have worked @ uses K240 for recording sessions, a few K270's and K280's but mostly K240's.
I have been recording for decades now and I think I have tried 'em all. The K240's just work in the studio environment, the sound 'translates' well on the big system.

I have K240's and Beyerdynamic DT250's ( 75ohm ). I use the Dt250's more often, I've just grown to like 'em and they seal really well, I use those and sometimes the Sony Pro or AKG HD25's when doing outdoor recording's. They are all really good 'closed' headphones and block external noise very well.

Sound recording and mixing is what I do ......

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1427982/

[Brent Hutto]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Here is the mentioned chart. Looks fairly close, hard to say which one is actually flatter Seems to me a bit more mid range bump in the 240 but a bit less over all modulation . So interpret as you will.

To the extent that chart correctly reflects the performance of the two headphones, the K240 ought to sound much bassier. From 80-400Hz its response is around 5dB greater than the M50. That's quite a bit.

[Bob Womack]

One of the big factors with headphone usage is ear fatigue. Lot's of headphones have impressive response but wear out your ears due to narrow frequency response spikes above the mean response volume for across the bandwidth. The AKG 240s are some of the least acoustically fatiguing to use that I've come across and their headband/suspension system prevents them from being physically fatiguing as well.

Still, you have to find something that fits you personally.

Bob

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by mutantrock

Herb,

http://www.headphone.com has the charts and spec's for headphones. Best resource I have found.
__________________

Thanks for the link.

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Here is the mentioned chart. Looks fairly close, hard to say which one is actually flatter Seems to me a bit more mid range bump in the 240 but a bit less over all modulation . So interpret as you will.

I think it is important to note that the graph represents the frequency response of the K240 MK II and not the venerable K240 Studio. The chart is derived from the measurement of 200 test tones so the use of a separate set of test tones might possibly result in a graph that looked rather different. Daedalus measures their speakers using 700 test tones.

[Herb Hunter]

I own a pair of AKG K 240 Studio headphones and a pair of Sony MDR-7506 headphones and I'm struck by how the sound I perceive while wearing them does not correlate well with the response depicted in the graph below. For example, my Sony headphones sound markedly brighter than my AKG headphones yet the graph shows the AKG as having a stronger response in the region above 5,500 Hz to the limit of audibility. As I pointed out in a previous post, the results are for the MK II version of the K 240 and not the Studio version. Nevertheless a couple of other AKG headphones I picked at random were represented as having a stronger high frequency output than the MDR-7506.

[Bob Womack]

Herb, you are probably experiencing "masking." Notice the bass response is higher on the AKG than the Sony. When you draw a line between the trebel peak and the bass peak, they are at similar levels. Draw a similar line between bass and treble on the Sony and you see that the bass is much lower. That's why the treble sounds louder - it relatively is. When mixing, you can get into little "tilt" battles where you want more treble and then you want more bass and then more treble because the brain measures the amount of energy in a particular frequency range relative to the other frequencies in the bundle. Note that the Sonys have a dip at 200 to thin them out as well.

Bob

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

I think it is important to note that the graph represents the frequency response of the K240 MK II and not the venerable K240 Studio. The chart is derived from the measurement of 200 test tones so the use of a separate set of test tones might possibly result in a graph that looked rather different. Daedalus measures their speakers using 700 test tones.

Yes I did not see the studio model in that sights charts.

Also for clarity I have no dog what so ever in this hunt, as I use a pair of Senn. HD 280 for tracking And a pair of Senn HD 600 for mixing when not using monitors which I prefer most of the time.

[NAFIGATOR]

Guys, when I started this tread I did not think it's going to get this complicated. But now I come to an interesting conclusion I want to share...

There is no such thing as "most natural sound", is there? Just like with colors on different monitors, each speaker or a set of headphones will give you different sound. Thus, no matter what I use during recording, when I am done people will hear it based on the equipment the use.

But if this is true, then what's the difference what headphones I use for recording? As long as they have fairly flat response all of them are pretty much good enough and it all comes down to personal preference on clarity and conform. Am I correct?

[PorkPieGuy]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

The AKG 240s is the studio standard.

Bob

+1. Love mine.

[Bob1131]

Originally Posted by NAFIGATOR

Guys, when I started this tread I did not think it's going to get this complicated. But now I come to an interesting conclusion I want to share...

There is no such thing as "most natural sound", is there? Just like with colors on different monitors, each speaker or a set of headphones will give you different sound. Thus, no matter what I use during recording, when I am done people will hear it based on the equipment the use.

But if this is true, then what's the difference what headphones I use for recording? As long as they have fairly flat response all of them are pretty much good enough and it all comes down to personal preference on clarity and conform. Am I correct?

It is complicated, and even though you have already made your choice I think this discussion continues for the benefit of anyone else who might find this thread in the future.

Yes, there is no such thing as totally accurate sound reproduction, but in recording there is an advantage to having headphones that sound like the monitors used to mix and master. If your headphones sound great but don't sound like good monitors, your mix will not translate to other systems very well. You can, however, learn to compensate for your headphones (or monitors, for that matter), in that, if you know your headphones produce too little bass and your resulting recordings sound boomy on good systems (in your car or on a home sound system) then you learn to mix with less bass sound in your headphones to accordingly compensate.

Another important factor to consider is hearing fatigue. If you spend much time with headphones on, you will keep turning up the bass, treble and volume to compensate for the hearing attenuation that results from headphone high sound pressure. The more your hearing shuts down (attenuates), the more you have to increase volume, and the more volume used, the more your hearing attenuates, and on and on. The result will be booming lows and harsh highs when you hear it the next day. I can recall that happening to me and wondering what happened...it sounded so good last night!! The AKG 240 Studios are semi-open to minimize hearing fatigue and that is extremely helpful. Fully closed cups will isolate better, but will produce hearing fatigue fairly quickly. So, they are good for casual listening, but not recommended for prolonged studio work.

No matter which headphones you use, always mix down in headphones after a few hours of hearing rest to ensure YOU are hearing correctly.

[NAFIGATOR]

Bob, although I think I've made a choice, this choice was made mostly on the pricing factor and I have an option to change my mind still. I am reading all posts and gaining a lot of info and I appreciate this tread going. My last post was merely a conclusion from reading all other posts that I wanted to confirm. However from everything I read here it seems to me that I've made a good choice for the following reasons:

1. I am not a pro, I spend may be a few hours couple times per month with my 8-track or ever less. I mix 4 or 5 tracks at most, usually less. Thus, fatigue should not be a big issue.

2. I am concerned with sound leaking from headphones, because often I have to record just voice and acoustic guitar in different tracks and leaking is very easy to hear in such recordings.

It looks like both MT50 and AKG 240 have similar level of "flatness", but while AKG 240 may be easier on the ears during long recording sessions, MT50 has better sound insulation. Based on the two statements above and considering everything I've read so far it seems like I've made a good choice, I think.

Please let me know if I misunderstood anything in general. I know I am trying to simplify things, but it's the only way a guy like me can understand a pro sound engineer :-))))))