Learning curve - Page 2

tbirdman · #16 03-06-2021, 07:32 PM

I like you started in April so little less than a year. Started off practicing once a day, but now up to a couple times a day, maybe 3-4 hours total each day. I first started with Justinguitar.com lessons and came up to speed with strumming and open chords fairly quickly. I really like his laid out practice schedules. His beginners song app is a big help as it has backing tracks which you can play along to. In June I took a beginners class at the local community college. I was so far ahead of the class, and I had been playing for only three months. It felt great being the star pupil although with my recent classes, I'm not the star anymore.

LOL The instructor for this class was a waste of time even for the real beginners. About this time I played for some friends and best of all I was requested to come back to play again.

The summer brought my first experience with open mics.

I then took a Travis fingerstyle class in Sept. The going was slow, but I can do a good Travis three line bass pinch inside out fingerpicking pattern up to about 200 bpms. Using Travis's app, I was able to start slow and slowly build up my speed. I took 3 months of one on one lesson with a recommended teacher, and it was mostly a waste of time although he's a very good guitarist. I also took 5 singing lessons.

This semester I took beginning blues and blues fingerpicking plus music theory. Next semester I'm signed up for classical guitar which will talk about proper technique and note reading and also signed up for one one one lessons with the teacher I've been taking these community college classes from.

However, it's the journey that is important. It's been fun and frustrating at the same time. I feel like you that I'm in a rut now, but then I look back and see how much I have learned. I looked back at some earlier lessons and it dawns on me "now I know what he was talking about" I probably spread myself thin with all the classes and lessons, but I've learned a lot. Fun to learn a skill through this covid lockdown. My friend laughs and says a lot of guitarist unlike me learn a few open chords and then just stop.

6 years ago I couldn't cook and now I'm considered an excellent cook. I hope the same thing happens with the guitar.

I think the most important thing is to set a goal where you want to be and have your teacher set out a path for you to follow. Question him if you don't understand why he's making you practice something. Also make it a point to practice those things you are not good at. You won't progress if you keep playing the stuff you are good at over and over. Like you I'm waiting for the breakout moment.

captain_jack · #17 03-06-2021, 08:03 PM

I also started in April (gee, I wonder what was going on that so many people picked up the guitar at the same time

) and I can absolutely relate to the confidence level swings you describe. For me, there are weeks where I feel like I'm progressing and doing great and it's really gratifying. Other weeks I feel like I'm working on some new skill or technique and it's not clicking and I don't feel like I'm getting better. Those weeks are really difficult because picking up the guitar to practice feels like work rather than fun. What I have found is that talking to my instructor about it when those times come up allows him to throw something else in the mix to work on that will be fun and recharge my motivation.

If you have a good instructor they should be able to do the same for you.

Jwills57 · #18 03-06-2021, 09:34 PM

I know this is not a popular opinion and I admit to being old-fashioned, but I still, after forty years of playing and teaching guitar, practice technical exercises like scales and harmonized chord progressions and the like. In all my teaching experience it's obvious that lots of folks want to play songs/write songs without having the technical ability to get around on the guitar. Gaining some level of technical proficiency is tedious and painstaking and, frankly, a bit boring, but without it you can't get anywhere else. One simple thing you can do, which I still do, is to practice playing major and minor scales without using the index finger of your fretting hand, just pinky, middle finger, and ring finger. Your pinky is your weakest ally and your worst enemy as you progress on guitar. Playing scales as I have mentioned forces your pinky to work harder and more precisely. Your hand will probably tire quickly if you try this, but over time strengthening your pinky and actually your ring finger, too, which tends to be weaker as well, will yield big dividends. Good luck on your journey!

tbirdman · #19 03-06-2021, 09:45 PM

That is interesting not using your index for playing the scale. I will have to try that. My pinky is the weakest link. As far a practicing technique instead of songs you are right it is boring. I find myself after.an hour or kess.start to yawn and gave to rest for a little it, but in the past two months I have over away from song playing and more.to technique like spider exercises, scales, chord exercises finger gym. But I believe in the long run I will benefit greatly. Any more exercises you would like to share, I'm all ears.

tbirdman · #20 03-06-2021, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbirdman

I like you started in April so little less than a year. Started off practicing once a day, but now up to a couple times a day, maybe 3-4 hours total each day. I first started with Justinguitar.com lessons and came up to speed with strumming and open chords fairly quickly. I really like his laid out practice schedules. His beginners song app is a big help as it has backing tracks which you can play along to. In June I took a beginners class at the local community college. I was so far ahead of the class, and I had been playing for only three months. It felt great being the star pupil although with my recent classes, I'm not the star anymore.

LOL The instructor for this class was a waste of time even for the real beginners. About this time I played for some friends and best of all I was requested to come back to play again.

The summer brought my first experience with open mics.

I then took a Travis fingerstyle class in Sept. The going was slow, but I can do a good Travis three line bass pinch inside out fingerpicking pattern up to about 200 bpms. Using Travis's app, I was able to start slow and slowly build up my speed. I took 3 months of one on one lesson with a recommended teacher, and it was mostly a waste of time although he's a very good guitarist. I also took 5 singing lessons.

This semester I took beginning blues and blues fingerpicking plus music theory. Next semester I'm signed up for classical guitar which will talk about proper technique and note reading and also signed up for one one one lessons with the teacher I've been taking these community college classes from.

However, it's the journey that is important. It's been fun and frustrating at the same time. I feel like you that I'm in a rut now, but then I look back and see how much I have learned. I looked back at some earlier lessons and it dawns on me "now I know what he was talking about" I probably spread myself thin with all the classes and lessons, but I've learned a lot. Fun to learn a skill through this covid lockdown. My friend laughs and says a lot of guitarist unlike me learn a few open chords and then just stop.

6 years ago I couldn't cook and now I'm considered an excellent cook. I hope the same thing happens with the guitar.

I think the most important thing is to set a goal where you want to be and have your teacher set out a path for you to follow. Question him if you don't understand why he's making you practice something. Also make it a point to practice those things you are not good at. You won't progress if you keep playing the stuff you are good at over and over. Like you I'm waiting for the breakout moment.

Yes April, and I've already have bought 4 guitars plus a ton of equipment. If I like something I tend to dive into the deep end. LoL I will on a regular occasion jam over a friend's house or at mine. We both have built heated covered areas so we can me 6 feet apart and dry. We both ended up.wuth a shade sail 12x12 for cover and I bought a patio heater. On occasion you need to forget practice and break out the song playing so you can rejuvenate your energy level. If you get a chance, checkout Justin guitar. I still plan to use him. He's got some great classes which are not free but are cheap and are very helpful I bought music theory and scales. Also guitarjam has the best lesson I've seen so far for getting over the barre chord hump which is the F barre. The basics of the lesson are free but eye opening for me.

donlyn · #21 03-06-2021, 10:02 PM

Learning curve

JonWer,

Just an odd little thing which may not be happening now, but something that may happen to you some day.

I started learning to play many years ago in the 60s, playing with a flat pick. It didn't take, so I taught myself to fingerpick, first with skin and then using my nails as picks. When I started with the flat pick, it was distracting, and I was far more concerned with what my right hand was doing than my left (fretting) hand. And I let the right hand lead.

Well some years later I realized that my right hand fingers were just naturally going to the strings/notes my left hand was fretting, and I wasn't even telling my left hand where to go. Turns out that now the left hand is driving the train and the right hand is just along for the ride. I have no clue when or how this happened, just amazed one day that it was happening. And had been so for a while.

So if this does happen to you at some point, just enjoy and embrace it. Don't ask too many questions.

Don
.

mawmow · #22 03-07-2021, 09:39 AM

I am in the sixties too. It has always been a hobby.

Touched a guitar as a teen : learned a few chords... and forgot the guitar.
Played again as a young adult... skipped a few years... bought a guitar by age 32.
Bought a mid-range solid wood guitar at age fifty and turned to fingerstyle !
Found my most comfortable guitar specs a few years later. And changed guitar.

Started private lessons two and a half years ago to help with technical issues.
Realized I never had learned a song (except The House of Rising Sun arpeggios),
as I would always sight read : Had many songbooks and used to play some hundred songs then.
So I spent three months to learn a two pages fingerstyle trad.
I can still repeat a whole conversation I had, but music simply does not get in !
My teacher told me he sees learning curve to get flatter by age forty,
while many teenagers are real learning sponges !

So, keep it as a hobby, try new pieces every week : always hard but finally gets in.

I am glad to see I can still increase my stretching to play some more complicated
chord arpeggios each year : It takes time but it comes after a few months.
I never force a posture : I would let it come with time, and it does, most of the time.

JBCROTTY · #23 03-07-2021, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev Roy

... try to ensure that the majority of what you’re playing brings you joy, not frustration. Development isn’t a straight line. Lots of peaks and valleys and plateaus.....

This is absolutely critical advice. Development is not a straight line and there is no timeline you are working against. Your top priority is to enjoy the journey - that is what will keep you going. Most give up due to frustration and lack of confidence that new and difficult concepts can be learned and then mastered....over time.

There are times when things will come quickly and you will progress rapidly. Other times you will struggle and progress seems slow. When I get stuck or frustrated I just take a couple of days away from the guitar or I play the stuff I am good at and enjoy playing and "wait it out." They key is to have fun at all times.

tbirdman · #24 03-07-2021, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donlyn

Learning curve

JonWer,

Just an odd little thing which may not be happening now, but something that may happen to you some day.

I started learning to play many years ago in the 60s, playing with a flat pick. It didn't take, so I taught myself to fingerpick, first with skin and then using my nails as picks. When I started with the flat pick, it was distracting, and I was far more concerned with what my right hand was doing than my left (fretting) hand. And I let the right hand lead.

Well some years later I realized that my right hand fingers were just naturally going to the strings/notes my left hand was fretting, and I wasn't even telling my left hand where to go. Turns out that now the left hand is driving the train and the right hand is just along for the ride. I have no clue when or how this happened, just amazed one day that it was happening. And had been so for a while.

So if this does happen to you at some point, just enjoy and embrace it. Don't ask too many questions.

Don
.

Having been playing for about a year, I'm still waiting for when I developed the independence of my right hand from the left. When I do Travis fingerpicking, I have independence now between the left and right hand, but now I'm doing Blues fingerpicking with melody, they are connected back again. It's frustrating, but I know eventually they wills separate again.

EZYPIKINS · #25 03-07-2021, 12:39 PM

Havin never had an "proper" instructor. And also 60, started playing as a kid at home. Listening to LP's. Remember those? Entered a band at 17. Learn by osmosis as you go kind of deal for me. Learning to play my way. Force yourself to learn. as much as you can. Even now, I play every morning for 1-2 hours. Sometimes in the middle of the day. And after the wife goes to bed. I try to do 3 songs at a time. Though I don't do Classical. I am now doing a solo sort of coffee shop style. But the want, is as, if not more important than anything else. If the drive is not there. Just my opinion.

ljguitar · #26 03-07-2021, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonWer

Looking for your insights and a bit of a reality check.

Age 60, finger style and classic guitar, practicing ~1 hour a day, been at it for 9 months and have made progress, yet seems like I hit a wall. My instructor says year 1 is simply survival and starting year 2 the lights begin to come on. He’s pushing more complicated stuff my way which is stretching me and frustrating at same time. Confidence level swings when this happens.

What is realistic advice and insights you have for a struggling beginner?

Hi Jon
Best thing ever for my playing was playing with a friend who was slightly more skilled and played a different style than I. We jammed, and then began playing at open mics, and doing gigs eventually.

It pulled me away from rigid loyalty to technique.

Second best was when I began teaching others to play.

hatamoto · #27 03-07-2021, 09:56 PM

Motor learning will vary per individual. Are you hard on yourself? I'm very hard on myself but what I'm learning is that instead of dwelling on progress and timeframes is to appreciate the process and not care about how long it will take. I'm applying this to learning other skills too and I found is that I would set realistic goals that I know I can achieve no matter how crappy it looks on paper and when I'm there I feel better about myself. Next time, take it a step further. If nothing is working that session, I don't force it anymore. I just take a break and come back later.

You will need to do some deep thinking because only you can answer that.

Maybe ask yourself, what do you want out of guitar playing? For me, it was learning cool tunes at first and that was it. Now it is becoming my tool for expressing myself. Still thinking what I want out of it. I want to play with people better than me, but finding other musicians to jam with is hard in these times.

So start with realistic short term goals. Start easy. I think it's more about how your mindset is every session. If it's leaving you frustrated every session then that's not a good sign because now you're averted to it but your brain is just telling you to keep pushing but nothing is moving. Small but frequent doses at a time instead of long hours 1-2x a week. I'd rather play 20 minutes a day of pure focus than play 8 hours of noodling a day.Of course there will be frustrating times but you have to feel the deep sense of accomplishment no matter how small and the challenge as well. So take two steps back to go three steps forward. Hope that makes sense.

As for my personal reality check, yeah, sure I might not be able to shred, sweep pick or play those super fast lines, but right now I'm okay with that. It's not the type of music I really enjoy. I'm more in the slow, expressive melodic type but every now and then I challenge myself with some 8 and 16th note runs. I started at 50bpm and now I'm at 55-60bpm. I don't care about getting to 100bpm in a week's time because I know that's all I will chase for instead of focusing on playing cleanly, relaxed and with dynamics and I feel better about it.

JERZEY · #28 03-09-2021, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonWer

Looking for your insights and a bit of a reality check.

Age 60, finger style and classic guitar, practicing ~1 hour a day, been at it for 9 months and have made progress, yet seems like I hit a wall. My instructor says year 1 is simply survival and starting year 2 the lights begin to come on. He’s pushing more complicated stuff my way which is stretching me and frustrating at same time. Confidence level swings when this happens.

What is realistic advice and insights you have for a struggling beginner?

Do what you enjoy. Dont do what you dont enjoy. Its that easy. Keep it fun always. There is no set time limit. You decide what your time is worth and what you do with it. Dont be afraid to walk it way back a few notches. Learn to play as many songs as you care to and dont spend all your free time grinding technique. If you cant enjoy the ride then whats the point?

NormanKliman · #29 03-09-2021, 03:24 PM

My main problem has always been stamina, because once I get tired, my accuracy is out the window. I still have to be a few days into practice to play well.

It takes a while to develop hand strength, especially barre chords, and that’s a huge step forward when you get there.

As mentioned upthread, exercises are important. In addition to obviously hard material, I play easier things that are challenging for some other reason.

When I’m stumbling over a hard part, it’s usually for one or two reasons: I’m letting my striking-hand fingers move away from the strings and/or one of my grips on either hand lacks a stable base.

I learned something important from a beginner who used to laugh when he’d make a mistake. It wasn’t exactly a happy laugh and seemed a little odd, and then I realized he was putting a positive spin on the frustration.

smic28 · #30 03-18-2021, 04:09 PM

For me, learning (fingerstyle) guitar started with the most basic actions, like how to properly fret a note for good sound and how to place your fingers so the first three frets fell under your fingers. Soon enough, that became automatic. Same with learning a simple (or complex) song. It starts with a slow and intentional effort note by note, one finger and fret position at a time. Then that becomes automatic. At some point you learn the foundational fingerpicking patterns. They start as a conscious and slow effort, then also become automatic. Over time, your brain learns a whole library of patterns, chords, runs, and other musical elements (e.g. hammer-ons) which you can then call up as needed, either because they are part of a song you are learning or might fit as part of a song you are creating.

Same process for learning to read music or tab, and translating it to the fretboard.

You have to learn layer by layer. Mastering each layer brings great satisfaction and broadens your horizons.

I started learning and playing at 10 years old, which was 48 years ago. I still have a LOT to learn. And I often have to step back to basics to learn a new song.

Like others have said, the key is practice and perseverance.