Vocal / guitar recording with minimal bleed between mics

[Rudy4]

Since there are folks who seem to be looking to do simultaneous vocal / guitar recording I'll mention Fretboard Journals' "All About Recording" series, Episode #4 where there's great information on using dual figure 8 mics to minimize bleed between the two mics. There are demos of the mics in use, so this is great information relating to the technique.

[keith.rogers]

Bleed, as a problem, is a bit overrated, I think, but someday soon I hope to have a pair of suitable figure 8 mics to test this out.

Just a NB/FWIW (and I assume covered in the article), unless you have a really big space or pretty good treatment, the back side of those mics will pick up a *lot* of room. Too much of a bad room is a worse problem than a bit of bleed (IMO).

Maybe I don't understand what makes a little bleed when recording a singer-songwriter cause so much hand-wringing. I.e., if you're getting unmanageable bleed with a couple cardioid pattern mics placed well, then I think there's something else going on, or you're trying to do something in the mix, like widely spread the vocal and guitar, that's going to demand the figure-8 solution (with suitable mitigation of audio entering the backs of the mics).

[BoneDigger]

Originally Posted by keith.rogers

Bleed, as a problem, is a bit overrated, I think, but someday soon I hope to have a pair of suitable figure 8 mics to test this out.

Just a NB/FWIW (and I assume covered in the article), unless you have a really big space or pretty good treatment, the back side of those mics will pick up a *lot* of room. Too much of a bad room is a worse problem than a bit of bleed (IMO).

Maybe I don't understand what makes a little bleed when recording a singer-songwriter cause so much hand-wringing. I.e., if you're getting unmanageable bleed with a couple cardioid pattern mics placed well, then I think there's something else going on, or you're trying to do something in the mix, like widely spread the vocal and guitar, that's going to demand the figure-8 solution (with suitable mitigation of audio entering the backs of the mics).

I'm quite new at this, but for me, it has to do with the mixing and cleaning up various parts. I might add reverb, compression, or other things that I don't want to add to the acoustic guitar part (or vice versa). So, if I have significant mic bleed, then when I treat the vocals I am also adding that to part of the guitar part. Or, if I treat the guitar I'm also adding a something to part of the vocals.

But, in some instances, having that bleed can enhance a recording. It really depends on your desired results.

[superbitterdave]

I’m about as rookie as they come, but perhaps lower gain on both might help drop the bleed?

Curious what others think.

Cheers

Dave

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by superbitterdave

I’m about as rookie as they come, but perhaps lower gain on both might help drop the bleed?

Curious what others think.

Cheers

Dave

Unfortunately what you taketh away by dropping the gain you have to giveth back if you want to hear it.

There is a balance to be struck between mic placement:
* too far away = too much "room" vs
* too close = unrealist recording hyping various aspects of sound, specially with AcGtr

A good performance/recording with a bit of bleed is fine, very few listeners will complain or even know.

A bad performance/recording with lots of bleed is difficult to edit because you can't isolate the elements.

Good, well placed fig8 mics *in an appropriate space* allow you to choose a mic appropriate to the source and maintain some options for mixing.

Choose your room carefully, get your mic placement right and practice, practice, practice.

[Brent Hahn]

If your goal is bleed that's "minimal" enough that you can edit or punch one track and not the other, that's not gonna happen. A singing guitarist is one event captured from two spots.

[shufflebeat]

If you have a pickup on your guitar then you could consider recording that and running it through an impulse response to mimic the tone of a mic.

Then close mic your vocal, point the null (deaf spot) at the guitar and also point the guitar away from the mic. If you do have to edit either one it will be much easier to conceal.