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#46
03-03-2021, 01:05 AM
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I have used the bluetooth guitar dongles to go from guitar to amp with a degree of success (though my Brother has used one that I gave him successfully at home, but not so successfully when he plays in a band at Church - interference with other gear there, apparently). I may find the same problems at an open mic - I hope not. In any event, three quarters of my wireless portions do work well at home and I am pretty sure a bluetooth XLR to XLR connection will complete the last leg. (The output from a TC Helicon GxT or a Harmonizer that needs to be transmitted to the house PA). All in all, the investment to go wireless will be about $400 - $500(I had no idea as I picked up a $40 part here and a $60 part there how quickly it adds up.) Thanks for the link. If I listen to it a few more times, it might make more sense, but I am no electrician. DC current makes sense to me but AC is mysterious. Always with copper cables at the ready, sincerely thanking you for your guidance. Lost Sheep 
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#47
03-03-2021, 04:37 AM
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* Big events spend shedloads of money to ensure reliability in their wireless systems because it can't be done reliably on the cheap * The wireless frequency range available to the public is becoming more congested because it was sold off by Govt for public mobile communications * Relatively cheap kit sometimes offers several channels to mitigate dropout issues but only if you learn to use it * Very cheap kit doesn't and you will be at the mercy of the number of mobile phones in the room, how important is your performance? * Cobbling together systems in ways that the technology wasn't designed to work will compound issues. * Audio quality is not the only issue, reliability is the bedrock on which your performance is based. * Copper wire is really reliable until you physically break it. It's a three part series - enjoy 
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Give a man a fishing rod... and he's got the makings of a rudimentary banjo. Last edited by shufflebeat; 03-03-2021 at 04:44 AM.
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#48
03-03-2021, 08:56 PM
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"can't be done reliably on the cheap." Yes, indeed, one gets what one pays for.
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One of the things I will practice is being able to switch to cables quickly and smoothly. Until I can do that, I don't expect to subject my audience to the risk of a (doubly) botched performance (failed wireless followed by clumsy switch to cables). I will have a planned-out and detailed procedure rehearsed, just in case. (In the dark, guitar strapped to my chest and with mittens on - kind of like like how Marines were required to field strip and reassemble an M-1 under duress. I learned in Public Speaking Class that you always have your audience in mind, their needs and their focus and what you want to communicate to them. Since most of my Open Mic audiences are also performers at those same open mics, a smooth shift from wonky wireless to reliable wires would be as much entertainment for that particular audience as a decent song would be. I also recognize that such a recovery (deftly executed) might get applause the first time performed, but like a magic trick, does not tolerate repetition too often. Showmanship. Quote:
Last edited by Lost Sheep; 03-04-2021 at 02:17 PM.
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#49
03-08-2021, 08:17 PM
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Progress report
This weekend I assembled my board in a manner that lets me do what I described at the beginning of this quest.
Plop the board down and open it up, Turn on the power Hand two wireless receivers to the PA operator (I am talking about an open mic venue) Do a sound check Start playing. There are still a couple of form factors and connectors to improve on, but, I have exactly the system I wanted, more or less. The pieces I assembled work admirably together into a Crate 4-channel Mixer-amp at home. BUT!!! As Shufflebeat pointed out so kindly. I reinvented the wheel and made more work for myself. I have 9 switches to turn on for the board. And two more for my lead sheets. 2 switches each (transmitter and receiver) for each wireless connection (That's eight so far) 1&2) guitar to board 3&4) microphone to board 5&6) board to guitar input on the PA 7&8) board to microphone input on the PA and 9) The main power supply to the board (which powers the harmonizer 10) Then there is my computer which has my lead sheets 11) and the wireless page turner I put on the floor to page through the lead sheets on the computer. That is a lot of switches. Doable. I can do that before the prior player gets off stage and lose no time on stage and LOOK like I know what I'm doing. Is it worth the trouble to do for performance? We'll see. It is definitely worth the trouble to get the education I am learning. Not sure it is worth the money I put into four pairs of wireless devices. But I am enjoying myself for sure. (Whether this is a pathological feature of my personality or healthy independence and the "explorer" in me, I will let others comment.) As for the original subject of this thread, I am not sure if it degrades my tone or not. Or whether my (already degraded by age or whatever) tone suffers from degrading further. My "audience" of two in the living room did not complain. In the case of trouble with the wireless system: Transitioning from wireless to wired (and bypassing the harmonizer on the pedal board) is fairly easy. Switching to Microphone on a mic stand is easy. There will be the house mic, stage right. I will lose the function of the harmonizer. Switching to wired on the guitar is simply plugging in a cable to the guitar and PA (the House's cable will be laying on the stage nearby). Bypassing the board and staying wireless for the guitar is possible by unplugging the correct receiver from the board and handing it to the PA operator. Transitioning from wireless to wired and keeping the board/harmonizer in the signal path is a bit more involved. I don't think I would want to interrupt the performance for the (estimated) 15 to 30 seconds needed. Pull 4 transmitter/receiver combos (8 devices) and replace with wires - too much. If I want to use the harmonizer, I will need to use wires from the board to the PA, at least at first. Next question: Latency (I think I detected an echo/reverb feeling from my monitor lagging behind my own voice). Last edited by Lost Sheep; 03-09-2021 at 01:00 PM.
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#50
03-25-2021, 09:37 PM
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Progress
I have a picture of my "magic" pedalboard, but cannot find how to add it to my post. Can anyone help? (I am a bit of a dinosaur on the internet and do not know how to upload anything to the "cloud")
If I could show the picture, it would be here - with labels included. 470Kb. https://www.flickr.com/photos/192633750@N04/? Inputs: (Upper right of the pedalboard) To the Pedalboard is from the performer is wireless Guitar goes from typical guitar transmitter to the receiver in the upper right corner of the pedalboard and to the yellow cable to whatever pedals are on the board. Headworn mic goes to a transmitter that accepts a 1/8" input and goes to a receiver (in the picture, this is black with orange tape and feeds the signal into a cobbled-together "stick" of chained converters, transformer and gender-changers ending in a male XLR connecting toe the pedals - starting with a vocal harmonizer). This cobbled-together still will be fixed with a proper female 1/4" to Male XLR transformer when it arrives in the mail. The two incoming signals go into the pedals (not shown in the picture because one can use anything desired - think of the center of the board as a "black box", two inputs, two outputs what is inside is unknown). Outputs: (Upper left of the pedalboard) The two outgoing signals simply go to the House PA wirelessly. (upper left corner of the pedalboard) The yellow cable carries the guitar/instrument signal from whatever pedals are on the board to a transmitter whose receiver plugs into the house PA. And an XLR-equipped Transmitter carries the microphone signal from its pedals (a harmonizer) to a receiver plugged into the house sound system. So, I can step up on stage (open mic), plop my pedalboard down (all transmitters and receivers already powered on) and just hand two receivers to the soundperson and say, "Plug these in, the 1/4" is guitar, the XLR is microphone." As pointed out (thank you for lending your wisdom gained by experience. Shufflebeat), the whole system is unnecessarily complicated and invites problems, of interference. latency, unexpected failures, etc and it will be necessary to have quickly deployed contingency plans. But I have enjoyed the exercise and think it will be terribly convenient if I can just go up on stage with all the devices powered on, hand two receivers to the soundperson, do a sound check and start playing with no cords tying me down. Since my audience at the open mics I frequent consist mostly of other players, the pedalboard and wirelessness will be part of the performance along with the music. A novelty, perhaps but I expect it will cause comment if it works. Once I have a performance under my belt, I will report back in a new thread entitled "Wireless Pedalboard" since I have hijacked this thread enough already. Last edited by Lost Sheep; 03-26-2021 at 11:32 PM.
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#51
03-26-2021, 05:12 AM
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I often find wireless microphones have a harsh, almost electronic/distorting quality to the higher frequencies, especially the cheaper systems, while the equivalent wired models sound smooth and detailed. It's subtle but I notice it. I imagine guitar wireless systems would be the same, though a friend of mine uses an Xvive system sometimes with his acoustic guitar and bass, and I haven't noticed anything obvious.
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#52
03-26-2021, 07:28 AM
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After reading through this thread, I was curious and connected my wireless system to one channel of my PA and then cable to the other. "Degrade" is subjective on my metric (just listening), but I was astonished at the difference. It was substantial. My preference was far and away the cable, and I doubt I will ever use my wireless system again.
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