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  #241  
Old 12-06-2019, 03:21 PM
Lonzo Lonzo is offline
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I made a jig to help rough out the angled V cut in the headstock but, I hand cut an 8 degree angle in the walls of that V. The neck cuts are all sawn. In the end it is all refined by hand until it slides together leaving a .020” gap and a mallet knocks it in tight. I would imaging when done right you wouldn’t need glue for this to hold. I really like the mechanical aspect of this joint.

Interesting ! Until now. All I saw were necks like this cut& carved from 1 piece..
This is cool.. but the only reasons to do this I can see is that one probably saves wood.. seeing it is so old and rare ? ..maybe it is the satisfaction and enjoyment you can do it... any other reasons ? Ease of Maintenance/repair ? Stability ? ..possibility to combine different woods ?
Thanks for sharing !
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  #242  
Old 12-07-2019, 06:32 AM
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Mark Hatcher Mark Hatcher is offline
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Originally Posted by Lonzo View Post
I made a jig to help rough out the angled V cut in the headstock but, I hand cut an 8 degree angle in the walls of that V. The neck cuts are all sawn. In the end it is all refined by hand until it slides together leaving a .020” gap and a mallet knocks it in tight. I would imaging when done right you wouldn’t need glue for this to hold. I really like the mechanical aspect of this joint.

Interesting ! Until now. All I saw were necks like this cut& carved from 1 piece..
This is cool.. but the only reasons to do this I can see is that one probably saves wood.. seeing it is so old and rare ? ..maybe it is the satisfaction and enjoyment you can do it... any other reasons ? Ease of Maintenance/repair ? Stability ? ..possibility to combine different woods ?
Thanks for sharing !
Hi Lonzo, The main reason to use this type of joint is it makes a stronger neck.
It aligns the wood grain along the length of the headstock. The bird‘s mouth joint is stronger than an angled cut in solid wood.
This is particularly important to have on my Woodsman because it does not have center laminates or a backstrap

I feature traditional methods and designs with my Woodsman model. It is a very lightweight design and that has to include a lightweight neck to keep the overall balance right. I am using lightweight neck woods like Spanish Cedar and selected Mahogany and it is important to optimize the strength without adding weight. That is what the bird’s mouth joint does.

A bird’s mouth joint doesn’t show on a traditional style paddle headstock.

Yes, and I do enjoy challenging my skills doing this kind of work. It feeds the learning curve!

M
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  #243  
Old 12-07-2019, 08:32 AM
Lonzo Lonzo is offline
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Originally Posted by Mark Hatcher View Post
Hi Lonzo, The main reason to use this type of joint is it makes a stronger neck.
It aligns the wood grain along the length of the headstock. The bird‘s mouth joint is stronger than an angled cut in solid wood.
This is particularly important to have on my Woodsman because it does not have center laminates or a backstrap

I feature traditional methods and designs with my Woodsman model. It is a very lightweight design and that has to include a lightweight neck to keep the overall balance right. I am using lightweight neck woods like Spanish Cedar and selected Mahogany and it is important to optimize the strength without adding weight. That is what the bird’s mouth joint does.

A bird’s mouth joint doesn’t show on a traditional style paddle headstock.

Yes, and I do enjoy challenging my skills doing this kind of work. It feeds the learning curve!

M
Hi Mark and thanks a lot for the elaborate answer and feeding my learning curve. ...would have never thought about grain orientation.. but it makes a lot of sense ..just shows my ignorance
Have a great weekend and thanks again!
Lonzo
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  #244  
Old 12-07-2019, 10:16 AM
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Hi Mark and thanks a lot for the elaborate answer and feeding my learning curve. ...would have never thought about grain orientation.. but it makes a lot of sense ..just shows my ignorance
Have a great weekend and thanks again!
Lonzo
Part of my attraction to building guitars is how immensely complicated they are. There is always something new to learn on this adventure. If I ever felt there was nothing new to learn it would be the end of my adventure in guitar making

M
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Last edited by Mark Hatcher; 12-11-2019 at 01:18 PM.
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  #245  
Old 12-11-2019, 01:48 PM
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Default The Finish

I was very happy with the look, weight, and tone I was able to get with the old traditional style French polish I did on my first Woodsman guitar.
I used the thin outer albumen layer (the watery egg white part) to seal the wood:



The shellac flakes I used were the harder unbleached flakes and Everclear alcohol:



I like to use the Everclear because you don't need to wear gloves to apply it and the fumes won't immediately give you brain damage. I am not using any oil so the sense of touch during application is even more important.

The weak link, as I see it with French polish is the alcohol, well not necessarily the alcohol but the impurities in it that cut down how hard the final finish is. With Everclear a 190 proof bottle is 95% alcohol the rest is water. That is about as pure as you can get when distilling. Denatured alcohol which is often used instead of Everclear has additives to cut down on the water by basically adding poison.

I found a small distiller in Maine that does small batch distilling and then uses a molecular filtering system to remove the water leaving 100% (200 proof) Ethenol alcohol. I look forward to giving this a whirl!



Cheers!
Mark
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  #246  
Old 12-11-2019, 03:06 PM
Zandit75 Zandit75 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Hatcher View Post
I was very happy with the look, weight, and tone I was able to get with the old traditional style French polish I did on my first Woodsman guitar.

I used the thin outer albumen layer (the watery egg white part) to seal the wood:







The shellac flakes I used were the harder unbleached flakes and Everclear alcohol:







I like to use the Everclear because you don't need to wear gloves to apply it and the fumes won't immediately give you brain damage. I am not using any oil so the sense of touch during application is even more important.



The weak link, as I see it with French polish is the alcohol, well not necessarily the alcohol but the impurities in it that cut down how hard the final finish is. With Everclear a 190 proof bottle is 95% alcohol the rest is water. That is about as pure as you can get when distilling. Denatured alcohol which is often used instead of Everclear has additives to cut down on the water by basically adding poison.



I found a small distiller in Maine that does small batch distilling and then uses a molecular filtering system to remove the water leaving 100% (200 proof) Ethenol alcohol. I look forward to giving this a whirl!







Cheers!

Mark
Alcohol is not a problem, I thought it was a solution??!!
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  #247  
Old 12-11-2019, 05:20 PM
DanR DanR is offline
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Alcohol is not a problem, I thought it was a solution??!!
It's both according to Homer Simpson
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  #248  
Old 12-12-2019, 04:41 AM
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Alcohol is not a problem, I thought it was a solution??!!
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It's both according to Homer Simpson
I have to say I don’t find myself drawn to drink this stuff. I imagine it would quickly lead to a staggeringly short and forgotten night!
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  #249  
Old 12-20-2019, 10:20 AM
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Default Setting up Sides

I've got the Mahogany sides joined and have the Spanish Cedar kerfing and the side braces in place. Here are a few pics from along the way:











Mark
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  #250  
Old 12-21-2019, 10:04 AM
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Default Fiddleback Tree Josie small jumbo update

For those of you following my posts here is an update on this Fiddleback Tree Josie small jumbo model I've been working on:



Here are two pictures with the guitar sealed, primed, and the first gloss coat applied:





This is my second Fiddleback guitar I've made and am confident that it will sound as good as the Fiddleback Tree wood looks!

I was fortunate to acquire another quality Fiddleback Tree back and side set that I have available for a custom build.

Mark
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  #251  
Old 12-21-2019, 10:10 AM
doodahdoug doodahdoug is offline
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Default The Fiddleback Tree Josie

That looks great Mark, thanks for the update!
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  #252  
Old 12-21-2019, 10:32 AM
Lonzo Lonzo is offline
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Default Yowza!

..that looks mighty fine !
Congrats to both of you !
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  #253  
Old 12-21-2019, 11:07 AM
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Guitars44me Guitars44me is offline
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Smile Nice stuff Mark

That fiddleback Tree Mahogany has a beautiful color as well as figure! Almost light enough to appear like Maple...

As always your pics are super nifty!

A very Merry Christmas and a COOL YULE to all

Paul
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  #254  
Old 12-21-2019, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonzo View Post
..that looks mighty fine !
Congrats to both of you !
Thanks Lonzo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitars44me View Post
That fiddleback Tree Mahogany has a beautiful color as well as figure! Almost light enough to appear like Maple...

As always your pics are super nifty!

A very Merry Christmas and a COOL YULE to all

Paul
Thank you Paul, The Fiddleback Tree is Honduran Mahogany and it certainly is light in color. I expect we'll see it darken with age.
Merry Christmas to you too!

Mark
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  #255  
Old 12-26-2019, 10:52 AM
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Default Closing up the body on the Woodsman

I have the back all braced for the Woodsman and am gluing it on here:



I work with a lot of very figured wood but, a nice clean quartered set of does a wonderful job accenting to shape of an instrument. The body profile of a OO guitar is one of my favorites:



Here is a picture of the inside as a work to brace and voice the top which will soon close this guitar body up:



Thanks for following!
Mark
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