Learning music theory - books Vs videos Vs teacher

[johnd]

First, a story - skip ahead to the main question if you'd prefer...

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I learned classical guitar as a young kid but only for a couple or 3 years - Grade 3 I think. Reading music, basic theory, etc. I was OK but no natural talent especially.

Then I lost interest at grade 3 aged maybe 12-13 and never picked up a guitar again until age 20, when I became a Christian and wanted to be able to play some of the songs we did at church. This was totally different, all chords - which I'd never played in my life.

I'm now 31 and have spent the last 10 years bashing chords - I'm even in our church band - but it's always irked me I have no understanding of what I'm playing, since the little music theory I learned has been forgotten. I'm aware of scales and can transpose chords by sight (generally only 4 of them anyway ), can sort of read music, but that's it. I'm aware in a dim sort of way how much theory there is, but I only know just enough to realise how much I don't understand!

So I'm interested in understanding more music theory because I think it would make me a better player, and because learning is fun (I'm an academic kind of guy).
Playing in a live church band, we often flit from song to song so having to rely on music/chord-sheets is a pain, but there are so many songs simply memorising them isn't an option. We also quite often do improvised songs/interludes too. I often see other musicians just play instinctively - following the melody or picking up the chord progression - and it makes me jealous

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Anyway, I've been wondering about taking music lessons. Not guitar lessons specifically, but generic music lessons. However I wondered, is a human 1:1 lesson still the best, or these days are there other resources which are as good, better, or at least much better value? Obviously there are a gazillion things on YouTube, but what about professional courses over the web or on DVD - are they worth it or is the human interaction the only way to do things?

Any specific recommendations are most welcome in terms of resources (I have a couple of books by Wilbur Savidge on my list so far but not much else), as well as general thoughts.
I should add that I'm the kind of person who can get into things on their own, but benefits from a little structure...

[Pualee]

As a disclaimer, I've only been playing for about a year, but like you, I just bash chords (play at church - but not in a band). But...


I think what you want is freely available. You could get a teacher (it helps to have some accountability for doing the work, and someone to critique you), but get a guitar teacher, not a 'general music teacher'. Just learn the common guitar keys, and go from there. Starting with the Circle of 5ths, go from C to G, D, A, E. Be familiar with transposing via your capo. Learn some basic scale patterns (learn major and pentatonic first), and which chords are most common in those 5 keys (I, IV, V, relative minors, then fill chords). Learn your bar chords for E and A shapes, and know the fretboard on the 6th and 5th string (so you can lay down the barres when you need).

That is really enough to get you going. Theory isn't hard, you just have to practice - you can even improvise over the chords by picking out notes instead of strumming. Sit down with some CD's, youtubes, whatever, and put a song on repeat. Find the key, play with the chord progressions, and improvise over a scale pattern for that key. Add some bends, slides, hammers, tremelo, etc. to make it sound better Start reading articles about licks... and learn how to put those licks in different keys, timing, and different places on the fretboard. Then start changing the notes on them to make them unique for you (using your scale pattern).

I think I'm on then same journey you are (I played piano when I was little, trumpet in school... and didn't learn a thing about music the whole time).

Edit: I'm starting to think about a 2nd teacher, someone with a combination of three things: theory, lead acoustic guitar, praise music - those are my goals. In another 6 months, I'll probably be searching out a songwriter for lessons...

[johnd]

Paulee I'd probably have agreed with you 2-3 years ago, but a lot of that stuff I have learned, and I'm fairly good at the mechanics of playing the guitar once I know the chords I want to play
I'd also prefer to make up/learn the guitar side myself more, from an understanding of the music side. I'm the guy who'd rather work out maths formulae from first principles than memorise a bunch of equations

[oldhippiegal]

I learned music theory (after the osmosis part from being a pianist and in orchestra--oboist--as a kid) through college courses. It's a great way to get it if you can find a class like the ones I had. (There are some weird ideas about it these days--I don't agree with the concept of teaching it silently, without hearing what you're learning, but believe it or not, some academic institutions teach that way now.) 80% of what you learn, you get from the book, I suppose, and from the homework analysis of marking up scores, but the 15% that's ear training and the 5% lecture helps.

Self-directed people would get most of that through finding a good college-level book (like Barron's AP) and working through it on their own, analyzing the music they had on hand (or got from the public library or downloaded). But it'd almost be necessary to have basic keyboard skill and be able to play the examples through (not brilliantly, for performance, but accurately, for the sound) yourself.

[Fruitloop]

Well music theory isn't that hard or complicated on paper, it's putting it to practice that's hard. In my opinion your ear is the most valuable tool here. All the theoretical knowledge in the world will do diddly-squat if you don't know what to do with the information.

Focus on picking up tunes by ear (start with simple pop songs). Don't just learn the chords somewhat and bash them. Analyze deeply what is happening. What scale degree does the chord change to? What chord tones are there in the melody? Learn it inside out. If you have the patience transcribing the whole thing (every part), it will work wonders.

At the same time you should study the basic theory about chords, scales and whatnot. There are several good resources on the web for that (I hear good things about justinguitar.com), alternatively get a good book. The berklee modern method for guitar is great, it will also get your sight reading up to par.

Originally Posted by Fruitloop

Well music theory isn't that hard or complicated on paper, it's putting it to practice that's hard. In my opinion your ear is the most valuable tool here. All the theoretical knowledge in the world will do diddly-squat if you don't know what to do with the information.

Focus on picking up tunes by ear (start with simple pop songs). Don't just learn the chords somewhat and bash them. Analyze deeply what is happening. What scale degree does the chord change to? What chord tones are there in the melody? Learn it inside out. If you have the patience transcribing the whole thing (every part), it will work wonders.

At the same time you should study the basic theory about chords, scales and whatnot. There are several good resources on the web for that (I hear good things about justinguitar.com), alternatively get a good book. The berklee modern method for guitar is great, it will also get your sight reading up to par.

This is exactly how my music teacher describes the task of learning to read (and he is a superb guitarist in all genres). He says that your ear is so vital to the process and that this has to be developed. Often, your ear will know what is instintively 'right' (cadences for example) but learning some theory really helps cement that all round knowledge.

[awpeeler]

I too am a theory nerd. Mainly because I enjoy knowing the hows and whys of music. This is the best theory book I've found:
http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/...FWJo7AodxHgAXQ
Great day that's a long URL. If t doesn't work it's Edly's Music Theory For Practical People.

[mastercaster]

A well written book on songwriting is a enjoyable way to learn how theory is applied. Check out-

http://www.amazon.com/Songwriting-Se.../dp/0711981671

http://www.amazon.com/Writing-Music-...ting+hit+songs

http://www.amazon.com/Tunesmith-Insi...ords=Tunesmith

[Bowie]

I took two theory courses is college. For theory, books/videos are adequate and a teacher will refer you to books anyway. When it comes to actual playing, a teacher is infinitely more effective because they can see what you're doing wrong and help you correct it.

For what it's worth, I did everything I could to forget the theory I learned. I'm not saying it's bad for people, just that it worked against my natural creativity and changed my songwriting for the worse.

[JonPR]

I agree that - as a performer or composer - one can learn all the theory one needs (and more!) from books. Lessons -IMHO - are more for those who want to get more deeply into classical principles, and maybe take grades in theory.

Books I recommend are these:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hal-Leonard-...atonic+harmony
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hal-Leonard-...d_bxgy_b_img_y
- very approachable outline of standard CPP harmony (classical, but still relevant to pop and jazz).
(You need both 1 and 2 (diatonic and chromatic), because chromatic is not necessarily advanced. Most simple pop songs use some chromaticism. But diatonic is obviously the basics.)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/First-Steps-...s=music+theory
Cute little summary of the necessary info for UK classical ABRSM grades 1-5. Works as a great checklist to help you decide if there's anything you want to research more details on. (Eric Taylor's AB guides present the same stuff in more detail.)
Tip: you don't HAVE to take the exams...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/LEONARD-GUIT...ic+theory+kolb
Good guitar-friendly one.

If it's the songwriting angle you're interested in, this is great:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Songwriting-...pedler+beatles
- not only an excellent examination of techniques used by the Beatles, but contains a lengthy appendix on general music theory principles.

[Dalegreen]

It is quite simple, what ever effort you put into studying, you will likely get out of it in return. I don't share the same thought that music theory is relatively easy, as once you dive into aspects like counter point, analysis, and harmony in the classical realm it gets really complicated. The study of jazz also very in depth.
I always say though, using your ear is 95% of the work (if you can hear tonal frequencies). Any theoretical aspects you can add will only increase your musical knowledge and your ability to get out your instrument and play.
In my experience, aside from music schools I have attended, a good knowledgeable instructor will get you moving in the direction you want to go. There are great books and video's out there, and once you have a broader understanding of theory, those books and video's make so much more sense.

[Bern]

Books are alright if you're familiar with the basics already. Personally, I feel it's extremely boring, though. It can suck the fun out of you in a hurry to learn music theory. However, there might be some book worms who would disagree with this.
Videos are tricky, unless they're recommended by a respected experienced player you know personally, it's hard to determine for a beginner as to how well the video producer explains things. Also, videos, even if they're advertised to be for beginners, can miss the mark because the levels of beginners varies. For example, one beginner might have no problem comprehending theoretical concepts quicker because of prior experience with another instrument, where as complete 'noob' could be struggling, wasting his or her time and eventually may even give up.
I would recommend a live teacher for any beginner. I know it may take a while before finding a good one, but if you do find one, you'll kill lots of birds with one stone...theory directly applied to guitar playing, instant feedback (which is so important for a beginner), a constructive lesson plan and lots more goodies.

[815C]

I learned with a teacher - in a class. That was extremely fun. And the fact that tests where coming up and grades would be given was even more motivation to learn the parts of theory that I didn't naturally gravitate to.

[jeanray1113]

I learned some with a guitar instructor, but I have continued to learn on my own. The most helpful books I have found are Bruce Emery's Skeptical Guitarist series- Music Principles for the Skeptical Guitarist Volumes 1 and 2. He does a great job of explaining theory, has exercises that are really helpful, and ties it into the fretboard.

[delb0y]

I'm currently studying with Bryan Sutton via the Artistworks organisation. One of the extras that you get via Artistworks is access to a very comprehensive music theory course (all done through videos, with pass/fail quizzes at the end of every section).

You could do worse than sign up for three months with the guitar / musician of your choice (they have jazz, fingerstyle, rock, bluegrass, classical plus loads of other instruments / vocals too) and not only get access to a decent music theory course but get some fine guitar tuition, too.

I thought I was ok on the theory side of things - but I've just completed the second basic theory section and it's already covering new ground to me. There are four basic courses and an advanced one.

Not for everyone but an idea nonetheless, even if it's just for a quarter.

Kind regards
Derek