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  #16  
Old 12-09-2010, 10:15 AM
GuitarVlog GuitarVlog is offline
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  #17  
Old 12-09-2010, 01:22 PM
Herb Hunter Herb Hunter is offline
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  #18  
Old 12-09-2010, 01:28 PM
skyver skyver is offline
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I played a Kenny Hill Signature the other day, and was very, very impressed. If the trussrod is one of the things that helps make it so easy to play, I'm all for it. Now I've just got to start saving!
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  #19  
Old 12-10-2010, 12:00 AM
gltr gltr is offline
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I have classical's with flat fretboards and one with a 25 inch radius. I find I get cleaner barres on the flat boards. Flat or slight radius boards are preferred by classical guitarists in general for some of the techniques that are used. Two of mine also have 50mm fingerboards which seem to have been used a lot in historical instuments. Maybe people had smaller hands in the 1800's. The point being that it is a nice idea for players to commission or find an instrument that is to there liking. Would not truss rods change the sonic qualities some and lead to and increased weight of the neck?
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  #20  
Old 12-10-2010, 05:51 AM
Herb Hunter Herb Hunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gltr View Post
...Would not truss rods change the sonic qualities some and lead to and increased weight of the neck?
I would think that in some cases, the weight of the truss rod would be offset, at least to some degree, by a reduction in wood weight resulting from a slimmer profile.
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  #21  
Old 12-10-2010, 07:16 AM
Sari Sari is offline
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Maybe we should have two different designations:
- Classical guitars
- Nylon string guitars
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  #22  
Old 12-10-2010, 07:30 AM
ewalling ewalling is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sari View Post
Maybe we should have two different designations:
- Classical guitars
- Nylon string guitars
I think that distinction is already apparent and used in many ads and descriptions.
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  #23  
Old 12-10-2010, 10:04 PM
john bange john bange is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sari View Post
Maybe we should have two different designations:
- Classical guitars
- Nylon string guitars
My point exactly...in another thread...got shot down pretty good
maybe the designation "nylon string guitar" is just a little too broad
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  #24  
Old 12-11-2010, 08:08 AM
jayhawk jayhawk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guto View Post
I guess what most people who are not really classical players don't get is: classical guitars are made for classical players/music needs.
The wide fretboard, thicker neck are not downsides, they are good ones, if you are playing with the proper technique.
A lot of inovations beeing used today on acoustics comes from classical guitars, so they are not THAT atached to tradition. In fact, most of the newer classical guitarrists are playing on "modern guitars". I watched Ana Vidovic playing her Redgate this Tuesday.

Some people use truss rods on classicals, some think they dont need one. If a guitar is well built, in the end, it doesn't really matter.
First, I'm not a classical player. Second, this is more a query than a statement.

When you say that the wide fretboard and thick neck are good if you are playing with proper technique, what does that really mean? Was 'proper technique' developed because of the wide fretboard and thick neck? If 200 years they had thin neck and narrow fretboards would 'proper technique' look different today?

I guess I am not sure there is an universal 'proper technique'. There is what works. Never confuse form and function.

Jack
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  #25  
Old 12-11-2010, 08:18 AM
Herb Hunter Herb Hunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john bange View Post
My point exactly...in another thread...got shot down pretty good
maybe the designation "nylon string guitar" is just a little too broad
Taylor calls their nylon-string guitars hybrids because they combine design elements from classical guitars and steel-string guitars.
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  #26  
Old 12-11-2010, 08:20 AM
Herb Hunter Herb Hunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhawk View Post
First, I'm not a classical player. Second, this is more a query than a statement.

When you say that the wide fretboard and thick neck are good if you are playing with proper technique, what does that really mean? Was 'proper technique' developed because of the wide fretboard and thick neck? If 200 years they had thin neck and narrow fretboards would 'proper technique' look different today?

I guess I am not sure there is an universal 'proper technique'. There is what works. Never confuse form and function.

Jack
Well said!
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  #27  
Old 12-11-2010, 09:43 AM
john bange john bange is offline
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I guess the term "proper technique" is what raises the hair on the back of my neck a little and keeps me responding to this thread.
I use the guitar primarily to accompany the voice and supply the breaks. I have played for 50 plus years and have owned too many classical guitars to remember.
When I first bought a nylon string guitar with a radiused fret board, 1 7/8th nut and a slim truss rod neck, I knew I would never buy a true classical again.
This is the reason I think, "nylon string guitar" is too broad a subject. The crossovers and hybrids are reaching out and converting steel string player to play nylon who never would consider one 20 years ago. Their technique, if not "proper" is no less correct and sound great.
I can sit down and play a classical riff next to true classical guitarist playing one of mine...neither sounding bad but neither doing it "proper"...but we would be enjoying each others music...even though mine is on a strap and his(or hers) is on his(or her) knee.

Last edited by john bange; 12-13-2010 at 11:44 AM. Reason: spelling
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  #28  
Old 12-13-2010, 10:16 AM
guto guto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhawk View Post
First, I'm not a classical player. Second, this is more a query than a statement.

When you say that the wide fretboard and thick neck are good if you are playing with proper technique, what does that really mean? Was 'proper technique' developed because of the wide fretboard and thick neck? If 200 years they had thin neck and narrow fretboards would 'proper technique' look different today?

I guess I am not sure there is an universal 'proper technique'. There is what works. Never confuse form and function.

Jack
Hi Jack, I really don't know where to start, but I'll try.

First, I am not an native english speaker, so forgive me If I have used the term in the wrong way.

As I understand, proper technique in a classical guitar would be the kind of thing that will allow you to perform your best in classical music.
Some things are very individual, but some are not. Relaxation, the basic position of your hands, elbows, shoulders, how to attack the string, general posture and even nail care and shape.
Of course every individual will use variations of the basic principles, but I believe there are some basic principles that may work and be followed by almost everyone.

I'll try to show one example: If you are playing with your left hand in a manner that would allow for a thumb wrap, you will probably be uncapable of very large openings. Like the famous one on "Choro da Saudade", by Barrios. Watch the bass line at 1:55: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P04h0FTbvH8
But if you are playing with your thumb lower on the neck, with the four other fingers more or less in a 90º angle with the fretboard, to allow those kind of openings, the slightly thicker neck will provide better suport "underneath" than a very slim one.

Or lets say you have an arpegio with lots of open strings in a very dificult position, the widder fingerboard will propably allow for cleaner playing than a narrow one.

I hope it's not too confusing.
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  #29  
Old 12-13-2010, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guto View Post
Hi Jack, I really don't know where to start, but I'll try.

First, I am not an native english speaker, so forgive me If I have used the term in the wrong way.

As I understand, proper technique in a classical guitar would be the kind of thing that will allow you to perform your best in classical music.
Some things are very individual, but some are not. Relaxation, the basic position of your hands, elbows, shoulders, how to attack the string, general posture and even nail care and shape.
Of course every individual will use variations of the basic principles, but I believe there are some basic principles that may work and be followed by almost everyone.

I'll try to show one example: If you are playing with your left hand in a manner that would allow for a thumb wrap, you will probably be uncapable of very large openings. Like the famous one on "Choro da Saudade", by Barrios. Watch the bass line at 1:55: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P04h0FTbvH8
But if you are playing with your thumb lower on the neck, with the four other fingers more or less in a 90º angle with the fretboard, to allow those kind of openings, the slightly thicker neck will provide better suport "underneath" than a very slim one.

Or lets say you have an arpegio with lots of open strings in a very dificult position, the widder fingerboard will propably allow for cleaner playing than a narrow one.

I hope it's not too confusing.
You made the point as I thought you may have meant it. The concept of proper technique maximizes guitar dimensions and geometry makes since.
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  #30  
Old 12-17-2010, 05:53 AM
Torquil Torquil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb Hunter View Post
a two-inch nut width is of no advantage to someone with slim fingers regardless of technique; the thickness of the neck is simply a matter of personal preference.
The 2-inch (or slightly more) width on my classical guitar is of benefit for me at least, compared to the 1 7/8" I have on two other guitars.The classical guitar makes some things easier to play correctly when greater independence among the strings is required. I notice this more for complicated left hand work. My fingers are slim.
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