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  #31  
Old 04-29-2013, 12:24 AM
Island Mfg. Island Mfg. is offline
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Originally Posted by Cminor7sus4 View Post
When these Shertlers first showed up, I was glad to have that one more top-quality choice, especially for slot-head steel string guitars. Not too long ago, it seemed that the choice for these was mighty slim-- maybe three brand names, with one or two slot-head styles. And the Waverlys were the de facto high-end choice. The Waverlys were acclaimed to be accurate, tight, well made, great finish, AND the Waverly brand stamped in the base plate.

I bought my first two sets of Waverlys in about 2004, first time I made a slotted headstock. They were the most inexpensive Waverlys, the nickle-plated ones.
Both sets had significant slop in at least one tuner. I noted that the slop was evident even before the tuners were installed, so it wasn't because I had done a poor job installing them. I couldn't see any anomalies, but I was disappointed that both sets had bad tuners. A couple years later, I thought I'd try the Waverlys again. The gold plating looked cheesy, especially on the base plate. And a quarter turn of slop on one of them.
I recently had a client insist on a set of engraved baseplate, snakewood button Waverlys, you know, the $212 ones. They were perfect. Beautiful, snug, accurate.
So my impression was, the people who make these tuners spend a lot more time on the expensive ones.

I've never run across a bad Grover Sta-Tite, or the Gotoh version either. But now that we have Schertlers, I hope the quality proves out over time to be reliable and accurate. I love also that they are very modern looking, so us non-traditionalists have a great new choice.
Interesting. At DM, we get the Sta-tites by the box full, fresh from the boat, like. Every time I string up a batch of CBGs, I find myself throwing out at least 1 tuner, often 2, sometimes more.

Many people laud the Gotoh. I've had some awful sets in their less expensive range. I've had at least one outstanding (closed) one. I've tested the 510 (open back) out on two guitars. The machining is awesome out of the box, very tight, but they just didn't perform once installed. They were stiff and did not tune smoothly at all. The finish was also not as nice as on the Waverly, which have become my standard.

I've only seen 1 set of Schertlers (classical) I don't love the knob, hence my earlier question - Does anyone know if the Gotoh, Schaller, Hipshot, or other replacement knob will fit? - They looked to have great machining and nice finish!
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  #32  
Old 04-29-2013, 07:41 AM
jimmy bookout jimmy bookout is offline
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Originally Posted by Howard Klepper View Post
The post bears against the bushing with every solid headstock tuner, regardless of whether the bushing screws into the tuner base or is pressed into the headstock.
Howard,
If that's the case, then there can be no question that a sealed tuner has the advantage of having a full length bushing for the post to "bear against" and spread the load. As you know, there is also a major structural difference in the way the 2 styles are attached which adds to the issues with open back tuners (again, IMO). Tuners such as 510's are "clamped" if you will to the headstock, with both front and back of the headstock in play in fastening the tuner, an open back is ONLY fastened on the back of the headstock. In the end, this is why we have choices. Plenty of folks are happy with both styles.

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  #33  
Old 04-29-2013, 08:22 AM
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Burton LeGeyt Burton LeGeyt is offline
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There can be an issue as well with how well the bushings are fitted to the shafts. on recent set of Waverlies I had enough room to go in and install a very thin brass bushing inside of the press fit bushing to get a nice fit for the shaft. I didn't mind doing it but should not have to-

Doing that made a big difference in how the tuner felt in use.

As to the original Q, I don't like the look of the Schertlers otherwise I would give them a try.
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  #34  
Old 04-29-2013, 10:59 AM
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Aesthetically, the Schertler should be compared to the Rodgers and the Alessi rather than the American standard open back. Functionally, it is closer to the higher end standard than the butter bean group as well, IMO, and that is the beauty of it and why I use it as the base tuner on my modern designs. Economically, it is affordable, and I predict that it will be considerably more expensive as time passes. I too look forward to more upscale knob options for the Schertler tuner and am all ears if anyone knows of any.
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  #35  
Old 04-29-2013, 08:27 PM
Island Mfg. Island Mfg. is offline
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Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer View Post
Aesthetically, the Schertler should be compared to the Rodgers and the Alessi rather than the American standard open back. Functionally, it is closer to the higher end standard than the butter bean group as well, IMO, and that is the beauty of it and why I use it as the base tuner on my modern designs. Economically, it is affordable, and I predict that it will be considerably more expensive as time passes. I too look forward to more upscale knob options for the Schertler tuner and am all ears if anyone knows of any.
I've contacted Schertler re: button options. We'll see what the answer is, if I get one. Their website lists pearloid, gold, satin chrome and shiny nickel as button options... But I want ivoroid...

If anyone is familiar with anyone out there custom making buttons, can you please put me in touch?

GOTOH buttons DO NOT fit. I will try Hipshot this week and Schaller by the end of the month... my hopes are not so high.
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  #36  
Old 04-29-2013, 09:24 PM
Howard Klepper Howard Klepper is offline
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  #37  
Old 08-31-2015, 12:40 PM
Dave Murray Dave Murray is offline
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Default Having trouble with the classical Schertlers

I have two customers who keep asking for replacement tuners for their classical guitars. They can't keep the screws tight so the gears pull away from the body over time, then get chewed up as the gears slip apart. I've had Stewmac send them replacement tuners, but one of those was defective as well.

Both are now asking whether there's a direct replacement for these so I'll start looking around at bushing sizes and screw spacing to see what's possible. Would be grateful for any recommendations.

I haven't had any trouble with the steel string Schertlers - not sure what the mechanical difference is.
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  #38  
Old 11-06-2019, 10:57 AM
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Sorry to revive this zombie thread, but has anyone sourced replacement tuner buttons for Schertler, given the relatively limited stock button options?

Thanks!
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  #39  
Old 11-06-2019, 02:55 PM
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Chippy,

Short answer for us is no - we haven’t sourced replacement buttons.



Now, we had some buttons handmade for some Schaller tuners along time ago, and they fit fine. My guess is it is because how exact the hole in the button is made. Trying several types of replacement buttons for Gotoh tuners and Schallers the consensus is that the Schertler tuner’s shaft is just a few thousandths too wide for the standard replacement buttons (say from LMI). If one was so inclined, it probably wouldn’t take but a few seconds of file work on the tuner shaft to thin it to fit other buttons. I’ve never personally done it, but now that I’ve looked at it, I would judge that it’s not too hard to retrofit.
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  #40  
Old 11-06-2019, 04:02 PM
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chippygreen chippygreen is offline
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Originally Posted by nacluth View Post
Chippy,

Short answer for us is no - we havenít sourced replacement buttons.



Now, we had some buttons handmade for some Schaller tuners along time ago, and they fit fine. My guess is it is because how exact the hole in the button is made. Trying several types of replacement buttons for Gotoh tuners and Schallers the consensus is that the Schertler tunerís shaft is just a few thousandths too wide for the standard replacement buttons (say from LMI). If one was so inclined, it probably wouldnít take but a few seconds of file work on the tuner shaft to thin it to fit other buttons. Iíve never personally done it, but now that Iíve looked at it, I would judge that itís not too hard to retrofit.
Ryan, that's super helpful, and thank you for the additional detail and potential solution...
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  #41  
Old 11-06-2019, 04:10 PM
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Default Scherler Tuners custim buttons

I am a big fan of Schertler tuners. I agree with what has been said that they are best with more modern style guitars. When I make Schertler buttons I use the same process I use for Gotoh but I make a smaller size hole for a good fit:









These tuners are getting popular so I imagine someone out there is making them to order. If you order them from me they even come with a guitar

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  #42  
Old 11-06-2019, 05:19 PM
Bill Pillmore Bill Pillmore is offline
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Default Tuners

I have one guitar with the Schertler as in the above pictures, two with the open waverlys and two with the 510's. I definitely feel the difference between them and the waverlys. Just feel smoother. Goth 510's are also fine just different.
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  #43  
Old 11-06-2019, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Hatcher View Post
I am a big fan of Schertler tuners. I agree with what has been said that they are best with more modern style guitars. When I make Schertler buttons I use the same process I use for Gotoh but I make a smaller size hole for a good fit:

These tuners are getting popular so I imagine someone out there is making them to order. If you order them from me they even come with a guitar

Mark
Mark, I'm trying this brilliant argument out on the Mrs tonight!

Those tuner buttons are gorgeous, and the guitars on your website are no slackers either

This is for my Bashkin build, linked below, which leans modern and explains the search for waverly alternatives.
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  #44  
Old 11-06-2019, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Pillmore View Post
I have one guitar with the Schertler as in the above pictures, two with the open waverlys and two with the 510's. I definitely feel the difference between them and the waverlys. Just feel smoother. Goth 510's are also fine just different.
Bill, so I have it straight, you find the Schertler smoother than the Waverly? or the other way around.

Thanks for taking the time to reply!
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Michaud J-R Sitka/MBW
Bashkin 00-12 Adirondack/Mahogany
Bashkin 0M-MS Swiss Moon/Panama Rosewood (build thread)
Bashkin GC-12 Sitka/Koa
Martin 00-28c Spruce/Brazilian Rosewood ('67)
Martin M-36 (R) Sitka/EIR
Carter-Poulsen J-Model German Select Spruce/Macassar Ebony
K. Yairi RF-120 Spruce/EIR
Yamaha G-231 Cedar/Mahogany ('71)
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  #45  
Old 11-06-2019, 07:50 PM
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Bruce Sexauer Bruce Sexauer is offline
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The Schertler is incomparably smoother IMO. The installation is a no brainer, which is to say I cannot imagine screwing it up. Not so with the Waverly, it is really easy to mess up the geometry on it and get either too tight or too loose on any given tuner. The Waverly can be installed correctly, it’s just not a no brainer.
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Last edited by Bruce Sexauer; 11-07-2019 at 11:57 AM.
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