Waterloo Guitars High Turnover?

[Stringmaster]

I’m pondering a Waterloo but It seems that a lot of Waterloo's pop up on the used market—some multiple times—and they really haven’t been out that long. Any insights to this? Are folks disappointed in them, have they just sold tons of them, or otherwise? I’d love to hear from current and former owners. Thanks

[TBman]

I never bought one, but I had a passing interest in them. I felt they were great for old time music, blues, rag etc, but I only play so much of that and in spurts as well. Even a pro who plays blues, Toby Walker, had a bunch and sold them I believe.

There are always lots of D28s on the used market as well, so that’s no barometer of quality, satisfaction, or anything else.
Waterloos are a niche thing. They harken back to simpler instruments with a more fundamental tone. Some folks love them, some buy them thinking they’re scoring a cheap Collings, and someone will pop in here any minute to tell you to go buy an old Harmony instead.

I’ve had my (used) WL12 for a couple of years now, and I wouldn’t think of selling it. It’s dry, clear, really light, responsive as hell, gorgeous to look at, impeccably built and finished, and plays like a dream. If everyone in the world put theirs up for sale tomorrow, it wouldn’t change my opinion of it in the least.

The craftsmen at Collings justify their reputation with every guitar they’ve ever put out, and the Waterloo line is no exception. It’s not the right guitar for everyone, but for those who succumb to its charms, nothing else compares. You owe it to yourself to play one and decide for yourself if it’s right for you.

[stephenT]

Do you want a very well made, updated version of a cheap vintage guitar made by experts w/ good wood? If so, you might just need a Waterloo.

If that concept doesn't interest you look elsewhere. I'm the third owner of a WL-12, two people bought it and passed. But it stayed with me, it's a favorite and a keeper.

[Wade Hampton]

Just to add to what’s been posted in this thread so far, I think the seemingly high turnover rate in Waterloo guitars visible in the classified ads on this forum says more about the demographics of many AGF participants than it does about the guitars themselves. Most of us on here are older and have some discretionary income that we sometimes spend on guitars, sometimes on impulse.

Impulse purchases of guitars were ENTIRELY beyond my means when I was a struggling young musician eking out a living playing in bars. But these days I can just put it on a card...

So, seriously, I don’t believe that the turnover of Waterloo guitars that we witness in the classified ads on here has nearly as much to do with the guitars themselves as it does with the lives and current interests of the people selling them. The guitars themselves are great.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

[rockabilly69]

I see many of them turned over on reverb, so it's not just the AGF demographic. I think they are high priced for what they are, but they seem like a very nice guitar. I just played some nicely setup ones at Gryphon Strings in Palo Alto, and they keep quite a few in stock, so I got a pretty good feel for what they, sound, feel, and look like.

[Silly Moustache]

I think I'm a good case in point.

In November 2016, I travelled to a specialist guitar shop with the intention of buying a Gibson L-00 -they had three or versions in stock.

Why ? Because I am a fan of Pharis and Jason Romero, and I saw videos of Jason playing great lead stuff on an old , small gibson against Pharis' lovely smooth rhythm (on a Martin?)



like so many I have this thing - if I get the guitar, it'll play me like that!

I was vaguely aware of Waterloo guitars, and had Collings guitars, but this purchase was to be a Gibson.

As has happened to me a number of times, when I tried the Gibsons, they disappointed me tonally and in fit and finish.

The attentive and helpful sales guy suggested I look at the Martin Whiskey Sunsets and the Waterloos. Being something of a 12 fret freak and knowing about Collings Customer service and build quality - I bought a WL-12.

Well, I got it home and restrung it, and didn't much care for it, but decided I should play it as much as possible and try to get used to it.

Didn't really work.

I put it up for sale.


No callers from ebay, so I hung it up on the wall in my lillte office for a couple of months, took it down and it had noticable opened up, so I started playing it at home again.

One day a student came round and I decided to use my Waterloo. which I carefully put o a stand, and provided him with one.

Instead of using his stand he leant his very heave Aria Jumbo against a seat and it slid and fell on my Waterloo making two deep dents on the top in the blacker part either side of the neck.

People who have used the same cheap guitar fr years have no concept of the loss of value of damaging a guitar.

I took my Waterloo off sale, and decided that it was to be my "knockabout guitar. It now lives on my lounge, and I sometimes take it to a jam.

I suspect that many, possibly used to larger Martins, or Collings and such buy them and don't get instant satisfactory "feedback" from Waterloo guitars.

They ARE well made, and they do sound something like a small Gibson style guitar, but they can't immediately sound like a small "old" gibson guitar, but in my experience that do improve rapidly with playing.

BTW - shortly after the house fire in which Pharis and Jason Romero lost ALL their vintage and hand made instruments, I saw Jason playing a ...Waterloo.

Waterloos are very expensive for what they are, and I suspect that some have unreal expectations about what they'll get instantly. They are the sort of instrument that really has to be played in. Remember Bill Colling's aim was to build a new, well built guitar, that looked and sounded like a cheap old guitar!

[BrunoBlack]

I’m not sure there is a huge turnover. There are currently 23 used Waterloo guitars being offered on Reverb. I bought one new for $1800 a few years ago and thought it was a nice guitar for what I paid. I liked the guitar. It is very well made, has its own unique tone and is fun/easy to play. But it didn’t hit a sweet spot for me. I decided it was a great guitar to give to my grandson who is 16 years old. He loves it and I don’t miss it. Whenever I visit, I play it, enjoy it, and think it was a great gift. He uses it and loves it.

[rokdog49]

I had a brief interest in one of these when they first appeared on the scene.
Thankfully, I didn't get impulsive and buy one. They truly are a niche' instrument and yes, quite expensive.
Instead, later on I bought my Eastman E10 00 SS. It isn't a Waterloo or a Gibson clone. Doesn't sound like a CEO7 either. Instead it's a really great little guitar with loud, in-your-face voicing and lots of sustain. No, it isn't designed to do what the Waterloo's do, it's much more versatile. The quality and workmanship are absolutely superb. It has an Addy top on beautiful Mahogany back and sides and all for just a little south of $1000 I still consider it to be Eastman's best "little known" guitar.

[Mr. Jelly]

First off you also see a lot of Pre-War brand used guitars for sale and I take it they are some of the best guitars out there. I'd buy one bot they don't make one in the style I'd want. You also see used Martin Authentics for sale. That being said what my experience has been is that I bought one and loved it. So I bought another one and loved it more. So I sold the first one. Then I bought another one and loved it more than the first two. I think I'll buy another one now. Just enjoying the journey is all. And it's great.

[jpd]

Stringmaster....no different than any other prolific builder. Your awareness of the brand makes you think there is a high turnover.

[Kerbie]

Like many others, I seriously doubt the turnover rate is any higher for Waterloos than for most other guitars. I think the higher the sales volume, the more we'll see those guitars up for resale.

There may be some folks who thought they were getting a Collings and they are obviously not the same. I have a WL-12 which occupies a unique niche in my collection. When Bill designed the Waterloos, he wasn't aiming for a cheaper, smaller D1. He wanted something entirely different and that's what he got. They seemed to have sold quite well, especially considering how young they are, so it's no surprise to see some on the secondary markets. Great guitars with a unique voice.

[zombywoof]

I have not been paying enough attention to the market to note if Waterloos are experiencing a higher turnover than the offerings of other builders.

I recall though when the Waterloo guitars first came out I was more than a little curious about what a modern version of a ladder braced guitar sounded like. Problem was Mass St. Music was the only store near me which carried them and those they ordered were spoken for before they ever reached the store. It took me close to a year to finally be able to kick the tires of a few.

Maybe the Waterloos are guitars people liked the idea of better than the guitar itself. I think it is safe to say that most of the folks buying Waterloos have never been nearer to a 1930s Schmidt Stella or Sovereign, Gibson L00 or Kalamazoo KG-14 than the pages of a magazine. So it would not have to do with them not being spot on sound alikes for the guitars they are based on (which they are not). Perhaps an above post is right though in that some thought they were getting something like a Collings C-10 are a fire sale price.

[Nctom]

Some years ago I had a Kalamazoo KG-14 that was old, beat up and sounded sublime. In a fit of GAS I sold it and bought a nice shiny, small bodied Martin and have been looking for my Kalamazoo ever since. All the Martins I've had since have sounded fine, but were missing something.

Then came Waterloo. I now have two of them, a WL-12Mh and a WL-14, that take me back to the Kalamazoo with considerlably less expense and maintenance. Sure, they sound different from the Martins, the Larrivees, and the Gibsons I also own, but that is what guitars are supposed to do.

Part of the "high" turnover may be from people like myself who have owned several models searching for the sound and feel they're after. I've had a couple of others myself, including a big WL-RK that outGibsoned most Gibsons, but ultimately I didn't really want another big guitar. I think that's the key to how many are available used.

[lt20dbl]

I've never been tempted. They look like the old cheap guitars that sounded like crap. I doubt they sound like crap and I'm confident in the Collings craftsmen. My problem is, it just doesn't look like a $2000 guitar.