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  #46  
Old 05-11-2014, 09:40 PM
Luke_ Luke_ is offline
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Thanks for the response Fran.....

Seems like any omni directional mic would be at a slight disadvantage of capturing "room" noise or accidental snot picking up only what's intended.

I understand that there are large and small diaphragm mics. Both seem to have good results recording acoustic guitar rom what I've read. But what are the characteristics of the two? It's it size of the inlet, the surface area of sound capture? Seems like one or the other would have an advantage over the other?

In reference to pointing the mic like a flashlight. Don't suppose I've pointed the "point" of the mic at the source. Suppose I'll try that and see if there is any distinct side effects in comparison to other sides
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  #47  
Old 05-11-2014, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke_ View Post
T
I understand that there are large and small diaphragm mics. Both seem to have good results recording acoustic guitar rom what I've read. But what are the characteristics of the two? It's it size of the inlet, the surface area of sound capture? Seems like one or the other would have an advantage over the other?
I wouldn't worry too much about Large vs Small. People will ascribe various differences, but in reality "it depends". It's a lot like asking what the difference in woods used in a guitar. So many things affect the sound, not just the wood, that people can generalize, but you can easily find guitars that defy the generalization. I doubt that anyone could listen to a recording and identify whether it was recorded with an SD or an LD mic. Maybe some very experienced recording engineers could, but I suspect even they could be fooled. The differences tend to be small, and are dwarfed by other things, such as mic placement, room acoustics, the guitar, the player, effects, etc.

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In reference to pointing the mic like a flashlight. Don't suppose I've pointed the "point" of the mic at the source. Suppose I'll try that and see if there is any distinct side effects in comparison to other sides
Fran's pointing out that a mic isn't 100% directional - even a directional mic picks up something in all directions. But you definitely want to "aim" the mic, it makes a difference whether you play into the "front" or the "back", as you've heard, but even smaller changes matter, too. With a cardiod, you need to know which is the front of the mic. You will hear differences in tone depending on where you place the mic - both where you "aim" it, and where it is relative to the guitar. A mic near the headstock is going to sound a lot different than one in front of the sound hole. There is tons of info on mic placement on the web, so I'd do some reading, and experimenting. I'm not going to claim this is the best of what's out there, but here's an article I did for Acoustic Guitar a while back, with a video demo, that might get you started.

http://www.acousticguitar.com/How-To...Home-Recording
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  #48  
Old 05-12-2014, 05:19 AM
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Good thread. Regarding aiming the mic, this is a nice video from Audix:

http://vimeo.com/42589077

Shows some of the differences one can achieve through placement.
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  #49  
Old 05-12-2014, 06:36 AM
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Doug I feel dumb for not putting 2+2 together, thanks for taking the time to help me out... I have seen your video before but I remember it being longer. Never the less, great advice as always. I think I'll spend the evening tonight rifling thru some of your YT videos they are very helpful.

My reference to aiming was using the point of the mic rather than the sides. So I plan on giving that a whirl and seeing what it brings to the table
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  #50  
Old 05-12-2014, 08:46 AM
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My reference to aiming was using the point of the mic rather than the sides. So I plan on giving that a whirl and seeing what it brings to the table
Luke, you have to know where the "input" is on your mic, for lack of a better word. Im guessing from what your saying that you have whats called a "side address" mic. The capsules are setup so that the sound comes in the sides. Using the flashlight anaology, you might think of this as a "lantern". Aiming the "point" of a lantern at the thing you want to see probably isnt very useful. But by all means try anything and everything. A bit of reading about the basics of diiferent mic types and mic usage will probably save you a lot of time, tho.
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  #51  
Old 05-12-2014, 09:24 AM
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This looks worth a read:

http://www.m-audio.com/images/global...hone_Guide.pdf
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  #52  
Old 05-13-2014, 03:35 PM
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Anybody know about Studio Projects C4 matched pair SDC mics? They worth $300?
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  #53  
Old 05-14-2014, 10:20 PM
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Well I bought the UR44 tonight..... Check that off the list. Found an open box for $230 shipped
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  #54  
Old 05-15-2014, 07:39 AM
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Well I bought the UR44 tonight..... Check that off the list. Found an open box for $230 shipped
Nice score. My friends UR 44 is due for delivery today. He is the one that has the UR 22 like I do. I received my e70 stereo bundle Tuesday and did a few quick test runs recording Acoustic gtrs. If you want to hear them I'll either post a another thread and or embed here. Need to upload to SoundCloud.

I really need to get more time in using them and in some cases wish I didn't post clips, but at least one can appreciate the fact that I was wiped late Tuesday afternoon but forged on after un-boxing and setup up the Stereo bar and messed with some different options like x/y just touching, x/y one just above, and measuring correct distance and angles for ORTF.
They were recorded straight to the UR 22 so you can hear the mics and pres in action. No compression, eq, Reverb, all bone dry. Three short clips one being double tracked, 2 with drum loop.
There is no "stereo effect" as the mics were recorded as two mono separate takes/tracks and not panned from each other. I didn't hear any phase issues but wasn't sure on the ORTF so I didn't try much with that yet. Might be fun to use one e70 and a LDC as well.
I'll try and get some of these examples up very soon. BTW the e70's are discontinued but still readily available by many retailers. I just can't believe they sound this good for the price, but I trusted my sources. 200 bucks for a Stereo pair with 2 capsules each, a stereo bar and 2 mic cables. Really glad I pulled the trigger
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  #55  
Old 05-15-2014, 10:19 AM
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Heck yeah post them links up, I'm ready to pull the trigger on mics also. Also if you could repost the link to the mics that would be cool
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  #56  
Old 05-15-2014, 12:19 PM
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Heck yeah post them links up, I'm ready to pull the trigger on mics also. Also if you could repost the link to the mics that would be cool
Let me record one more track or two today as I am not as burn't out and will try one more placement which would be still x/y but up higher pointing down. I promise I will upload by tonight
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Old 05-15-2014, 12:33 PM
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...forged on after un-boxing and setup up the Stereo bar and messed with some different options like x/y just touching, x/y one just above, and measuring correct distance and angles for ORTF.
...

There is no "stereo effect" as the mics were recorded as two mono separate takes/tracks and not panned from each other. I didn't hear any phase issues but wasn't sure on the ORTF so I didn't try much with that yet. Might be fun to use one e70 and a LDC as well.
I'm confused about why you're going to all the trouble of setting up a stereo bar, measuring distance and angles for ORTF, then recording in mono. "ORTF" is pretty meaningless unless you're talking about stereo - it's a stereo technique, not just a mic location. For mono, I'd use one mic. The main way to know if you have any "phase issues" is to compare the stereo vs the mono recordings (or measure the phase correlation between the stereo pair), so if all you have is mono, it's pretty tough to even know anything other than if it sounds ok or not. I'd suggest recording in stereo with this setup. You can always collapse to mono in the mix, but you can't get back to stereo if you didn't record the mics in stereo to start with.
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  #58  
Old 05-15-2014, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
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I'm confused about why you're going to all the trouble of setting up a stereo bar, measuring distance and angles for ORTF, then recording in mono. "ORTF" is pretty meaningless unless you're talking about stereo - it's a stereo technique, not just a mic location. For mono, I'd use one mic. The main way to know if you have any "phase issues" is to compare the stereo vs the mono recordings (or measure the phase correlation between the stereo pair), so if all you have is mono, it's pretty tough to even know anything other than if it sounds ok or not. I'd suggest recording in stereo with this setup. You can always collapse to mono in the mix, but you can't get back to stereo if you didn't record the mics in stereo to start with.
First off if I recorded one stereo track I am committed. Recording two mono tracks gives me the option to pan to taste. By putting them both in the center or if double tracked panned hard Left and right in these scenarios I can check for phase issues. With the double tracking I can mess with any combination of those four mono tracks as far as panning.

Second by using two mics at the same time and not having phasing problems I can record different parts of the guitar at the same time ie: 12'th fret and toward the bridge. Of course this would be x/y. FYI so far not so happy with ORTF.
I use my ears and sometimes there is no right or wrong. All I've done so far is study and this is my first efforts using two mics on a Acoustic guitar and SDC's. I have used 2 mics on Electric gtr. Tube amp cabs, but this seems somewhat different. I haven't tried the omni caps that are also available with this e70 Stereo bundle. I am far from an expert on this subject and application so will heed further comments and advice, when the clips are up.
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  #59  
Old 05-15-2014, 02:38 PM
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First off if I recorded one stereo track I am committed. Recording two mono tracks gives me the option to pan to taste.
OK, so you didn't really record to mono - you recorded each mic to its own track and mixed to mono? I don't know your DAW, but in most DAWs I know, there's really no difference between recording two mono tracks and panning them left and right to create stereo vs recording to a stereo track - where you can still collapse to mono if you want. But this may have to do with your software. In any case, to really get these stereo micing techniques, you don't want to be panning or collapsing. If you're recording to 2 tracks, pan one hard right, the other hard left, and leave that alone. Then you'll hear what the technique is supposed to do. Of course after that, do whatever you want to make it sound best to you!
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  #60  
Old 05-15-2014, 05:04 PM
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If you record with two mikes (dual mono or stereo) and pan to center you will have mono with the disadvantages of two mikes (phase issues) without the advantages of two mikes (a stereo field - usually a fuller bodied sound and wider sound stage). You can pan a little towards center to narrow the image a bit if that is what you want, but generally that would apply to spaced pair recording rather than recording with closer together mikes (XY, ORTF) where the image is already more tightly focused.

Software is available that can handle right and left track stereo tracks separately or simply split the tracks apart. I find it easier edit a stereo track than two mono tracks. However whatever suits one's work flow usually makes the most sense.
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