I'd love to see -- and hear -- a really traditional looking carbon fiber guitar

[ataylor]

A while back I spent an evening or two flirting with the idea of owning a carbon fiber guitar down the road. I still think it would be fun.

What I'd love to see is a really traditional-looking carbon fiber guitar. And I guess by traditional, I mean "golden era" Martin type of aesthetics. Simple square headstock. Basic square or belly bridge. Traditional dreadnought or OM shape. Simple inlays and appointments. Open gear tuners. Et cetera.

Basically I'm imagining something like a Collings D1 or OM but in carbon fiber stealth mode with black carbon fiber and black open gear tuners. In terms of a company offering a more traditional aesthetic and sound, it wouldn't be unlike the "revival" series that Breedlove did a while back -- I'd love to see a carbon fiber brand give that a go. I'd also be curious to see how close they could get the sound.

That or I'd love to see one of the big boys give carbon fiber a try. Taylor CF-10 anyone? Martin D-CF? Gibson J-CF? I feel like it will happen sooner or later.

[Acousticado]

Although I've never owned or played one (I've owned a CA GXi and Cargo), I believe opinions have been that the Composite Acoustics (CA) Legacy may have come close to what you want. Hopefully, Ted @ LA Guitars will chime in here as he may have the most experience and best opinion about it.

[ac]

Blackbird makes these:

[dadio917]

why make a CF guitar look like wood? it's like fake squared? CF looks cool, as does wood.

[Acousticado]

Originally Posted by dadio917

why make a CF guitar look like wood? it's like fake squared? CF looks cool, as does wood.

I like the CF look, so I tended to agree for quite some time until I saw particular wood veneer tops Emerald is offering. If you're referring to the ekoa that Blackbird is using as per the above photos, it's not trying to look like wood...that is the ekoa (linen) look.

[fazool]

I dislike wood veneers on top of CF - I think it's just sort of "fake" like putting wood stickers on your green station wagon and calling it a "woody" - no one thinks your car is made of wood.

[Earl49]

The Emerald veneers are beautiful, as is the copper burst paint scheme on the Rainsong APSE. But I still prefer that my CF guitars have the exposed CF, either weave or uni-directional. YMMV. The Blackbird eKoa material looks quite good in person, not unlike a mahogany or a plain grade of koa. El Capitan sounds much like many of my Taylor's too, and is not nearly as big in person as it looks in photos. I believe that Blackbird is exhibiting at the Reno Ukulele Festival starting tonight, for anyone within striking distance of downtown Reno that might want to see one in person. I ordered my Lucky 13 after being able to finally demo one there last spring.

By the way, the early Fords used a lot of wood in their construction. Growing up in Michigan, I have been to forests owned by Henry Ford. Kingsford charcoal briquettes are a by-product of the wood scraps used in the Model A and Model T. By the 1950's the "woody" panels on the side of a station wagon was just a cosmetic joke, a sticker as you mentioned. But at one time, those panels were real wood.

[fazool]

Originally Posted by Earl49

The Emerald veneers are beautiful, as is the copper burst paint scheme on the Rainsong APSE. But I still prefer that my CF guitars have the exposed CF, either weave or uni-directional. YMMV. The Blackbird eKoa material looks quite good in person, not unlike a mahogany or a plain grade of koa. El Capitan sounds much like many of my Taylor's too, and is not nearly as big in person as it looks in photos. I believe that Blackbird is exhibiting at the Reno Ukulele Festival starting tonight, for anyone within striking distance of downtown Reno that might want to see one in person. I ordered my Lucky 13 after being able to finally demo one there last spring.

By the way, the early Fords used a lot of wood in their construction. Growing up in Michigan, I have been to forests owned by Henry Ford. Kingsford charcoal briquettes are a by-product of the wood scraps used in the Model A and Model T. By the 1950's the "woody" panels on the side of a station wagon was just a cosmetic joke, a sticker as you mentioned. But at one time, those panels were real wood.

Yes they were. And putting stickers on cars was very deliberate - it became a bad joke. Fake wood appearances on metal cars is not unlike fake wood appearances on CF guitars. And guitars were once made of wood too.

As a lover of both wood and cf, I really like the new Emerald woodies. Not only is the wood not fake, it is not a type of wood that would never be seen in a traditional wood guitar. The veneers on the new Emeralds would not have the grain and strength to survive as face woods; but they sure are stunning when paired with cf.

[Acousticado]

Originally Posted by EvanB

As a lover of both wood and cf, I really like the new Emerald woodies. Not only is the wood not fake, it is not a type of wood that would never be seen in a traditional wood guitar. The veneers on the new Emeralds would not have the grain and strength to survive as face woods; but they sure are stunning when paired with cf.

^^^^^
What he said.

[rmsstrider]

Originally Posted by Acousticado

Although I've never owned or played one (I've owned a CA GXi and Cargo), I believe opinions have been that the Composite Acoustics (CA) Legacy may have come close to what you want. Hopefully, Ted @ LA Guitars will chime in here as he may have the most experience and best opinion about it.

Having just taken delivery of CA Legacy gloss finish, I can say this guitar fits the bill. Traditional dred. Shape and feel. This is one of the few CF guitars I beleive that has a CF braced tuned top and is the most wood like sounding CF guitar I have played. In a blind test , I doubt anyone could tell it wasn't a wood guitar. It is on the heavy side though, but I haven't found it to be a problem. The body is thinner than expected. I think 4-5/8 at the bottom of the lower bout and tapering to around 3.5 as you move up the body. Very balanced and plenty of base. The Fishman electronics are great too. Nice Gotoh 510 tuners. Stainless frets and cf nut saddle and bridge. The set up from the factory right on . Overall very pleased.

[Captain Jim]

Interesting thread. I bought my first carbon fiber guitar (a RainSong Shorty, very similar specs to a Taylor Grand Concert) partly because it had the look - well, shape - of the Taylors I had been playing. It made me rethink what I appreciated in a guitar: how it sounds. Not what sound wood, what body size, etc, etc. We can get lost in subtle differences, but I truly believe the future for acoustic guitars has another option besides wood.

Carbon fiber allows guitars to be made that are not "traditional," but still have a great sound. Soft, rolled edges... designed in arm bevels... and sound holes that give the player the same sound experience that those in front of the guitar get. Advantages: of course, the sound, but also improved comfort, and the thing that first brings most folks to carbon fiber: indifference to the humidity/climate.

Three months ago, we were at home on the Gulf Coast (humid), then off to Arizona and the dry ol' desert. Right now, we are at Big Bend National Park, with wide-ranging day to night temps and crazy low relative humidity. Soon, we'll be back on the Gulf Coast. And, my Emeralds (X7 and X20) are perfectly comfortable and sound great. The new X20 is a custom Select Series that has an absolutely gorgeous louro preto veneer. This isn't anything like the fake wood paneling from the Family Truckster - no, it is more like the beautiful veneer used in lightweight yacht decor. I like the well-done carbon fiber weave on my X7, but I really appreciate the one-of-a-kind look that Emerald is doing with the veneers. I don't think they are "trying to make it look like wood," but rather are taking sound, comfort, and durability that comes with carbon fiber and adding another element from nature. And, done in a way that makes this as much art as instrument.

And, art, as we all know is subjective. As is tone. I appreciate an instrument that brings both together. And, I appreciate that all carbon fiber look. In case I didn't mention it, I also appreciate the wood guitars I have... and some of those have gorgeous finishes or bursts, strictly for the esthetics.

Traditional is fine. BUT, it also means you are giving up real improvements; improvements that I find with carbon fiber. Step beyond traditional, and see what your ears, eyes, and heart tell you.

Good luck with the search. Options... so many great options!

[Acousticado]

Imo, with some exception and beautiful in its own way, the top woods on most wood acoustics is boring in appearance compared to the range of distinctive woods used for backs and sides, mostly hidden from the audience. Emerald is changing that up by putting distinctive b&s woods front and center as tops to create stunning looks. Nothing wrong with that if you ask me.

[Purfle Haze]

Originally Posted by fazool

Fake wood appearances on metal cars is not unlike fake wood appearances on CF guitars. And guitars were once made of wood too.

Fazool, since you picked the car analogy, I'll note that the steel panels used to make the exterior of cars are artificially colored. No problem! People want a car that pleases them, matches their nails, etc. Painting the steel also makes it easier to differentiate the various cars in the parking lot.

Guitar players aren't demanding natural steel cars, but they seem pretty rigid about the Big Brown Thing. Further, wood doesn't naturally have a pickguard, but how many guitar players demand a clear pickguard? Seemingly very few. Many can't abide a cutaway. Armrests? OMG!

I think the Emerald woody tops are among the best-looking guitars I have seen, right up there with the gorgeous wood builds of Somogyi, Klepper, and others who break the mold. Virtually nobody knows what an Emerald guitar is anyway, and those that do aren't fooled by the "fake" wood.

[sirwhale]

The Emerald Cocobolo veneers are truly spectacular.