#1
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Troubleshooting a sympathetic buzz around C#
I have a buzz that occurrs when I play a low C# and maybe sometimes a C (and sometimes maybe the 4th or 5th that note)
a.) it is a new (5 month old guitar) Martin M-36 b.) it is NOT fret buzz (it happens on the low E and A string at those notes) - and I can tell it's not fret buzz. c.) I do have a K&K Trinity installed (so that would seem to be the likely culprit) BUT I have touched, moved, removed (except for the sensors), jiggled and held basically every component (wires and all) of that system inside the guitar and the buzz persisted. I have also had someone else look for the problem. They took everything out (except the sensors). That person was an idiot as it turned out but he couldn't find it either. d.) It is not tuning mechanisms The only things I can think of are: maybe loose binding or a rattling truss rod??? The sound seems to come from all over - it's strange. And I can't hold, squeeze, or bend it (gently) in any way to make the buzz stop. Before I ship this off to an authorized Martin dealer, I wanted to see if anyone had any ideas on how to troubleshoot. ???? Here is a short clip http://dl.dropbox.com/u/32257396/m36recordingBuzz.mp3 Thanks! Last edited by CrankyChris; 05-29-2012 at 10:05 AM. |
#2
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I would make an audio recording of the noise and do spectral analysis of it to define exactly what it is you hear (or don't hear). I cannot emphsize strongly enough that mystery noises are often negative images, i.e., the problem does not cause a new noise that you hear; it prevents the voicing of normal sound, so you are left with a sound that is missing the expected components. For example, play a G note on the 6th string, then fret the note further and further from the fret until the G note becomes a hiss. Under spectral analysis, you will see that the hiss isn't a new component, but it's what is left after the components of a clean G note are no longer present. The hiss frequencies were there in both samples, but in the absence of a clean note, all you hear is the hiss. The reason it is important to understand this is to determine if the problem is one that adds a noise, such as rattling truss rod, or a problem that prevents normal voicing, such as a broken brace.
Depending on who does the troubleshooting, this information may be important to find the problem quickly. |
#3
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Have you pressed down on the strings right at the nut, to ensure the strings are not rattling in the nut slots. If you put a capo on the first fret and then play the same pitches that rattled, does it still rattle? Quote:
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Without pictures or sound samples, if it is none of those things, I'd venture a loose brace (pitch-related) or loose fret (position-related). To check for a loose brace, if you can't seem to find any origin from which the buzz emanates, press gently on the top in lots of different places. If doing so stops or diminishes the buzz, likely a loose brace. To check for a loose fret, use the erase end of a pencil and press downward on the fret while playing the buzzing note. If it gets better, it's a loose fret. |
#4
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#5
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I'll get some clips this evening
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#6
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Okay, you've determined that it is pitch-related. That could mean either a "mechanical" or "acoustic" sympathetic vibration. By "mechanical", I mean a lose brace, ball ends of the string not seated and vibrating against the bridge plate, loose nuts/bolts, if bolt-on neck, truss rod nut loose, pick-up components - though you've looked at those ...
By "acoustic", I mean the way "the system" as a whole vibrates. Things like wolf notes. Has this 5-month-old guitar always had this buzz or developed recently? |
#7
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I didn't notice the buzz in the shop (nor the wolf note g), but I noticed it within weeks of having it new. I did notice in the shop that it's low end response was somewhat lacking (compared to dreads that I normally play - but I thought that was just part of the deal with the smaller 0000 body). I play a lot of capo'd material (up to the 5 or even 8th fret) and that's where it really shines. It's kind of subtle and it could be mistaken for fret buzz/sloppy playing. I believe it has always had it. Although, I had the pickup installed almost immediately after I purchased it ....so.....??? I don't know if it was always that way or if the pickup installation is related. If I HAD to guess, I'd say it more than likely appeared after the installation of the pickup. Last edited by CrankyChris; 05-29-2012 at 09:25 AM. |
#8
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Updated: Here is a short clip
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/32257396/m36recordingBuzz.mp3 It seems to be several notes from...say a# to maybe d (as I play it right now). Last edited by CrankyChris; 05-29-2012 at 10:57 AM. |
#9
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You didn't mention, but have you tried other strings, and maybe a slightly heavier (or lighter) gauge to see if you still hear it?
__________________
More than a few Santa Cruz’s, a few Sexauers, a Patterson, a Larrivee, a Cumpiano, and a Klepper!! |
#10
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I have tuned down 1/2 step and I don't think I noticed it then. I think I've always had the same guage of string b/c Martin doesn't reccomend putting anything thicker than lights on the m-36.
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#11
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Most builders recommend lights, but most guitars will handle mediums as long as you pay attention. I'd try another brand, maybe some med lights ( light meds?) or a bluegrass set, just to see if you still notice it.
__________________
More than a few Santa Cruz’s, a few Sexauers, a Patterson, a Larrivee, a Cumpiano, and a Klepper!! |
#12
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Is the sound clip in standard tuning? Is that a normal G chord at 4.6 seconds? In any part of the sound clip, did you play F# at the second fret of the first string?
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#13
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--actually checked-- Actually (I've checked my on-line piano and) it's a B. So I'm capo'd on the 4th fret and I'm playing a G shape chord - which is actually a B chord. So the individual buzzing is on B in this example. As I mentioned a few post ago - I went home and I could hear the buzz over a range of notes - but there was no buzz below (approximately) an A# or above a (approximately) D. |
#14
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Do you have any recordings of the guitar before the K&K was installed? |
#15
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But what you say makes a lot of sense, though. What does this mean "some tap tone recordings are necessary"? How does one do that? And how might I experiment with adding subtracting mass? |