Educate me please: does little saddle showing mean an imminent neck reset?

salsarev · #1 07-12-2021, 08:24 PM

I sold a guitar from which I had removed the under-saddle pickup. When the buyer received it, he was not happy with the amount of saddle remaining (I don't know how much is remaining). I honestly had not noticed because I didn't play the guitar because I was selling it. The only pictures I have are of the guitar before I removed the pickup. Buyer said he set the relief to spec but that with so little saddle remaining, he would have no saddle to sand if he put a pickup back in the guitar. I offered to refund the amount of a new saddle or he could send the guitar back for a refund. Buyer said it was a sign that a neck reset was imminent so he he is returning the guitar for a refund.

I don't know much about these things and the answer may be more complex than I imagine. My question is this: Why would a new saddle not solve the problem? I'm not looking for opinions on the transaction, only on the technical aspects of the situation. Thanks in advance!

mirwa · #2 07-13-2021, 12:04 AM

He just sounds like he wants out, """if he puts a pickup back in""" being the key words.

Sometimes its easier to come to a deal and move on, as far as the actual situation with your guitar it may need work it may not, only someone there assessing it can tell you

Howard Emerson · #3 07-13-2021, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salsarev

I sold a guitar from which I had removed the under-saddle pickup. When the buyer received it, he was not happy with the amount of saddle remaining (I don't know how much is remaining). I honestly had not noticed because I didn't play the guitar because I was selling it. The only pictures I have are of the guitar before I removed the pickup. Buyer said he set the relief to spec but that with so little saddle remaining, he would have no saddle to sand if he put a pickup back in the guitar. I offered to refund the amount of a new saddle or he could send the guitar back for a refund. Buyer said it was a sign that a neck reset was imminent so he he is returning the guitar for a refund.

I don't know much about these things and the answer may be more complex than I imagine. My question is this: Why would a new saddle not solve the problem? I'm not looking for opinions on the transaction, only on the technical aspects of the situation. Thanks in advance!

Not necessarily.

When you removed the under-saddle pickup, the action was lowered by the amount of the pickup thickness.

If you had made a new saddle that added back that height, the action would be the same as it was before removing the saddle.

Was that action okay for you? I will assume it was. Would it be okay for another owner? Who knows?

The point is that people will use the 'exposed amount of saddle' as a bargaining chip REGARDLESS of how good the guitar sounds.

Before you resell the guitar have a new saddle made, AND take your own pictures of the guitar. Forget about it having had a pickup in it, despite it probably having a jack installed.

Bridges can have their string pin slots ramped for better break angle, the top of a bridge can often be shaved down to provide more exposed saddle (without compromising the integrity of the bridge!), etc, etc.

The guitar can have a great sound with all the supposed issues raised on the internet. The real problem is that most shoppers are tire kickers, and they focus mainly on 'potential' instead of reality.

There is no guarantee that resetting a neck, thus having a taller saddle, is going to make the guitar sound a quantum leap better than it currently does, anymore than slotting the bridge pin holes for better break angle will, etc.

Walk away, learn from it.

Best regards,
Howard Emerson

redir · #4 07-13-2021, 07:03 AM

As mentioned if you removed the USP and used the same saddle then your action at the 12th fret went lower by half the thickness of the USP. And the saddle itself of course was lowered to the full thickness of the USP. This is usually a significant change in the action of the guitar. IOW it may even be too low now. Or if you were playing it with high action then it may be set perfectly.

If the action is at it's lowest it can go and the saddle is low then that's not really an issue. The guitar could last many many years in that state.

Having said that it is always nice to have room to adjust. When I used to make dovetail joint guitars I always aimed for a high saddle so that some years down the road it could be lowered after the guitar breaks in and starts to fold up a bit. Then you would be good for many years.

So what your buyer is seeing is just this. That this adjustment was already done and he will not have the opportunity to do it again. But of course it's a used guitar too so what do you expect?

In all fairness though when selling a used guitar there are several points that should be made and the set up, action, and cosmetics should all be covered. But then at the same time as a buyer you should ask those questions too.

Move on live and learn is probably the best thing to do now.

salsarev · #5 07-13-2021, 07:19 AM

Thanks for the informative replies. You have confirmed that my thinking was not off-base and that a new saddle at a height to compensate for the removed USP should solve the issue. I appreciate all of your replies.

tadol · #6 07-20-2021, 11:48 AM

If the action and set-up was good before you removed the UST, then the guitar could easily be close to unplayable now. But that really has no bearing on whether the guitar need a neck reset - the amount of saddle showing is just a quick and dirty way to make a judgement about a guitars condition, but some measures and evaluation with a straightedge would be the correct way to make that determination -

canyongargon · #7 07-21-2021, 12:41 PM

As others have said, a low saddle is only an indicator of a neck reset if the action is also high.

If the action was fine before the UST removal, then the action would have gotten significantly lower with the now-lower saddle and that would not indicate a neck reset, but would imply that the new owner needs to replace the saddle with a taller one.

ChrisN · #8 07-24-2021, 08:53 AM

I think it's possible the buyer's (over)reacting to the difference between the pics (OK saddle height) and the arrived condition (low saddle). Plenty of scurrilous sellers are trying to unload guitars in need of a neck reset, so the pics with the inaccurate saddle height suggest such an effort, even though not your intent. Looks intentionally misleading, to the new purchaser.

salsarev · #9 07-24-2021, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisN

I think it's possible the buyer's (over)reacting to the difference between the pics (OK saddle height) and the arrived condition (low saddle). Plenty of scurrilous sellers are trying to unload guitars in need of a neck reset, so the pics with the inaccurate saddle height suggest such an effort, even though not your intent. Looks intentionally misleading, to the new purchaser.

You have a valid point. Although I had no intention of deceiving anyone, my lapse of thinking through the details, especially from a buyer's perspective, created an undesirable situation. The good news is the guitar doesn't need a neck reset, just a new saddle. Thanks for your perspective!

merlin666 · #10 07-24-2021, 04:53 PM

I don't think that the saddle or details are the main point. The buyer had an expectation based on the pictures that was not met due to modification. It may have helped to take pictures of the guitars that reflect the changes for the sale. I think that return is reasonable as the guitar was not as described. However the warning bell for me is that the buyer said he "set the relief" which to me suggests a modification made such as turning the truss rod. The returned guitar must be carefully examined to make sure nothing got broken in the process and it is returned in the same state as shipped or documented in pictures.