Tilted saddle slot. Ok or bad?

mitch145 · #1 05-09-2021, 04:17 PM

Hi I posted this on a classical guitar forum but I'll try posting it here aswell to see what your guys opinions are.

https://prnt.sc/12q787j

As can be seen in the link I attached above my whole bridge is tilting forward, causing the saddle aswell to tilt. The saddle fits tightly and perpendicular in relation to the base of the bridge itself.

Is it still a bad thing or does it not matter? Does the saddle still put excessive force on the front of the bridge? The bridge seems to me like its glued on just fine so I don't understand what the problem may be.

Thanks
Michael

EZYPIKINS · #2 05-09-2021, 06:48 PM

As long as it's solid I wouldn't worry about it. You can over analyze things.

Roccorobb · #3 05-09-2021, 07:27 PM

Can you give us another picture a little further back? Where is the movement occurring? Is the back of the bridge lifting from the top do that you can slip a sheet of paper under it? Or is the whole soundboard 'belly-ing' do that there is a hump behind the bridge and a dip in front (between bridge and sound hole)?

warfrat73 · #4 05-09-2021, 07:27 PM

What's the humidity like there? It looks like it might be over humidified.

charles Tauber · #5 05-09-2021, 08:27 PM

Without string tension, is the bridge vertical? That is, does the entire bridge rotate towards the sound hole as a direct result of the string tension, and does not rotate when there is no string tension?

Luthier Trevor Gore suggests that a "responsive" classical guitar should have the entire bridge rotate about 2 degrees due to string tension. More than that and the instrument is likely built too lightly, less than that and the instrument is likely built too heavily. Yours appears to be more than 2 degrees, but you'd have to compare it to the no-string-tension condition.

If the rotation due to string tension is considerably greater than 2 degrees, you might check to ensure there are no loose braces.

mitch145 · #6 05-10-2021, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roccorobb

Can you give us another picture a little further back? Where is the movement occurring? Is the back of the bridge lifting from the top do that you can slip a sheet of paper under it? Or is the whole soundboard 'belly-ing' do that there is a hump behind the bridge and a dip in front (between bridge and sound hole)?

I can't tell where the movement is occuring. I tried slipping a sheet of paper under all sides of the bridge but it doesnt go in at all. The bridge seems like its glued on fine. It could be due to bellying, it's hard for me to tell but looking at it, to my eyes, it looks like a slight slight bump in the back and what could be a dip in the front but it might just be my eyes deluding me. Heres some more photos, maybe you can tell?

https://prnt.sc/12rhgv0
https://prnt.sc/12rhiar
https://prnt.sc/12rhlbk
https://prnt.sc/12rhogd

mitch145 · #7 05-10-2021, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warfrat73

What's the humidity like there? It looks like it might be over humidified.

The humidity is constantly between 35-47% where I live so it's definitely not overhumidification but I appreciate the suggestion.

mitch145 · #8 05-10-2021, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Without string tension, is the bridge vertical? That is, does the entire bridge rotate towards the sound hole as a direct result of the string tension, and does not rotate when there is no string tension?

Luthier Trevor Gore suggests that a "responsive" classical guitar should have the entire bridge rotate about 2 degrees due to string tension. More than that and the instrument is likely built too lightly, less than that and the instrument is likely built too heavily. Yours appears to be more than 2 degrees, but you'd have to compare it to the no-string-tension condition.

If the rotation due to string tension is considerably greater than 2 degrees, you might check to ensure there are no loose braces.

Without string tension the bridge is sitting in the exact same place from what I can tell. I've tried measuring the saddle with a ruler before/after string tension and it sits at the exact same height. Thanks I'll check out if the braces are loose.

H. Mac · #9 05-10-2021, 07:22 AM

It looks like the bridge is secure, and only portion of it that actually holds the saddle (the slot) is tilted, so it seems that it is most likely the result of design. My guess is that it’s not a problem as long as the intonation is in the ballpark.

You might want to check with the builder, or do a Google image search on the particular make and model to verify that the tilt is normal.

1Charlie · #10 05-10-2021, 07:24 AM

Bellying usually happens over a long period of time.

If this forward bridge lean is a recent development, you may have a loose brace inside.

mitch145 · #11 05-10-2021, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Charlie

Bellying usually happens over a long period of time.

If this forward bridge lean is a recent development, you may have a loose brace inside.

Well the guitar was built in 1953 so haha... and its been like this ever since I bought it last year and by then the bridge had recently been reglued. I just diescovered this "issue" some months later...

mitch145 · #12 05-10-2021, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H. Mac

It looks like the bridge is secure, and only portion of it that actually holds the saddle (the slot) is tilted, so it seems that it is most likely the result of design. My guess is that it’s not a problem as long as the intonation is in the ballpark.

You might want to check with the builder, or do a Google image search on the particular make and model to verify that the tilt is normal.

Thats exactly what I thought aswell, that only a portion of the bridge is tilted, surely a pretty deviating feature if it's intentionally built that way. I wonder what the reason could be if it was? The builder doesnt exist anymore, it's an old Levin guitar built in 1953 and I love the guitar. It's just this thing that ticks me a bit and I would just like to understand why it is the way it is

But thats a good idea I'll check out if I can find some similar models and look at their bridges!

charles Tauber · #13 05-10-2021, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitch145

Well the guitar was built in 1953 so haha... and its been like this ever since I bought it last year and by then the bridge had recently been reglued. I just diescovered this "issue" some months later...

As long as the intonation is acceptable to you, it isn’t an issue in a guitar of that age.

mitch145 · #14 05-10-2021, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

As long as the intonation is acceptable to you, it isn’t an issue in a guitar of that age.

I can't find any problems with the intonation. Thank you thats relieving

ljguitar · #15 05-10-2021, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitch145

Is it still a bad thing or does it not matter? Does the saddle still put excessive force on the front of the bridge? The bridge seems to me like its glued on just fine so I don't understand what the problem may be.l

Hi Michael
If it plays in tune with itself (after strings being properly tuned in open position), it's good.

If not, then the slot can be filled, and re-cut back to perpendicular position.