Fishman Solo

[alohachris]

Aloha,

Eh, Sorry Larry. I'm writing this at work and so can't check the posts all the time. Thanks for your recommendation.

In your opinion, what are the main differences between the Soloamp and Bose.

Doesn't the single speaker limitation bother you at louder gigs?

alohachris

[Larry Pattis]

AlohaChris...

I don't do noisy gigs.



...at least not intentionally.

I have not gigged with the SA, since it just arrived this morning.

I am not a tech-head (compliment to technical folks, not abuse) when it comes to this kind of stuff. If you want me to get particular about things, I can do this extensively in the handcrafted guitar world...but I just want good-sounding electronics, and the ability to run things smoothly on my own, when necessary.

...about line-arrays, well, whatever you guys say is the way they work, that's fine with me!

I personally do not wish to go into gory detail about the minute details in comparing my classic L1/sub to the SA...

...you guys can do that as you get the time and experience.

All I really want to communicate is that the SA is going to be a very functional (emphasis on *very*) piece of equipment for the types of gigs that I play, and this would (ahem) include the occasional potted-plant gig with plenty of noise. No, it obviously hasn't been tested by me in this atmosphere...but my ears are telling me that the SA can handle exactly this kind of thing. A drunken, noisey bar? maybe not, I don't know, and I hope not to *ever* have to find out.

A small folk club/coffeehouse environment...it will be perfect.

...and as Forest Gump concluded, "...and that's all I have to say about that!"

(okay, I'll say more if pressed, but really, the SA is going to be a really useful tool for a lot of folks, me included.)

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Common sense and lots of experience with the Bose L1-II - a single line array tower - has led me to the conclusion that YOU ABSOLUTELY NEED AT LEAST TWO LINE ARRAY TOWERS - RUN IN STEREO - to achieve ANY dispersion or room control in anything other than a living room or library-like restaurant gig, which probably is all the Soloamp is capable of or intended for.

Maybe indoors, maybe. Here is me playing w/1 L1 in downtown Naples:



I have filled some huge spaces with one L1. Literally several hundred shows over almost 4 years and only once did I struggle and that could have been avoided had I set up differently and used a different mic. I am now convinced that the Bose L1, for me, is the best combination of sound quality, portability, set up, coverage, disbursement and versatility. Maybe not the best in any one of those categories but the best, again for me, overall.

Herb Hunter,
I see those Anchor systems in my Full Compass catalogs and I've always been curious as to 1) how well they work and 2) why I have never heard of them or seen them anywhere else.

Hi Larry!
I'm so glad the SoloAmp is going to work for you! That's fantastic!

Matt

[lodi_55]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

AlohaChris...

I don't do noisy gigs.



...at least not intentionally.

I have not gigged with the SA, since it just arrived this morning.

I am not a tech-head (compliment, not abuse) when it comes to this kind of stuff. If you want me to get particular about things, I can do this extensively in the handcrafted guitar world...but I just want good-sounding electronics, and the ability to run things smoothly on my own, when necessary.

...about line-arrays, well, whatever you guys say is the way they work, that's fine with me!

I personally do not wish to go into gory detail about the minute details in comparing my classic L1/sub to the SA...

...you guys can do that as you get the time and experience.

All I really want to communicate is that the SA is going to be a very functional (emphasis on *very*) piece of equipment for the types of gigs that I play, and this would (ahem) include the occasional potted-plant gig with plenty of noise. No, it obviously hasn't been tested by me in this atmosphere...but my ears are telling me that the SA can handle exactly this kind of thing. A drunken, noisey bar? maybe not, I don't know, and I hope not to *ever* have to find out.

A small folk club/coffeehouse environment...it will be perfect.

...and as Forest Gump concluded, "...and that's all I have to say about that!"

(okay, I'll say more if pressed, but really, the SA is going to be a really useful tool for a lot of folks, me included.)

So Larry.. You're really giving up the Bose before gigging with the Soloamp?

If so, you offset Matt sending back his Soloamp before gigging with it.

We're back to square one now!

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by lodi_55

So Larry.. You're really giving up the Bose before gigging with the Soloamp?

If so, you offset Matt sending back his Soloamp before gigging with it.

We're back to square one now!

Good one, Mike!

Well, not to be overly glib (or nonchalant) about this, but the demo I did today does give me all the *practical* experience I think I need to make this decision.

I've been doing this since about 1991, and I've also done a *lot* of running sound for other instrumental players, and even more experience with singer-songwriters (the latter of which is something I will never be). All in quiet, concert environments. This doesn't need to be something to anguish over, nor (IMO) does it need to be discussed-to-death...even though this is an internet guitar forum, and that's what we do!!

I have my CD release concert coming up on October 4th here in Eugene, and this will be all the real-world testing that I will need (if that), beyond what I have already done here at home. For all practical purposes, I already have the info that *I* need to make a decision.

I'll report back after the CD-release concert, if (and only if) there are any data-points worth making at that time...otherwise you'll find me at the "acoustic guitar" section of the AGF (man, I *love* to plug in and get that big warm, defined sound)...

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha,

Regarding the last comment about line arrays: people looking for wide dispersion from that type of sound system?

Common sense and lots of experience with the Bose L1-II - a single line array tower - has led me to the conclusion that YOU ABSOLUTELY NEED AT LEAST TWO LINE ARRAY TOWERS - RUN IN STEREO - to achieve ANY dispersion or room control in anything other than a living room or library-like restaurant gig, which probably is all the Soloamp is capable of or intended for. ...

[Joe Barbieri]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

Of course, one review is inconclusive but Open-road-matt's report that the SoloAmp hurt his ears during as he compared it to the L1 is an indication that the SoloAmp's sound propagation is more like that of a single PA speaker or acoustic amp than that of a line array. If one were to set it up as a tripod mounted PA speaker or acoustic amp is typically oriented, one could avoid ear discomfort.

Hi Herb,

This is incorrect. As for Matt's review, my hat is off to anyone that takes the time to write about any product in such detail. I thank him for his review, even though it may not be a product for him. I also add, and I'm not trying to be a smart *** here, that he should see a doctor. It really sounds to me that he may have some issue with his ears causing this pain. As for his comment that we have marketed this as direct competition to the Bose system, that is also incorrect. We have in fact, taken great pains to point out the differences. Due to the shape and ID of the product comparisons may be inevitable, but they do not come from us. Honestly Matt, thanks for taking the time to add your opinions to the mix and take care of those ears.

[Herb Hunter]

Of course, one review is inconclusive but Open-road-matt's report that the SoloAmp hurt his ears during as he compared it to the L1 is an indication that the SoloAmp's sound propagation is more like that of a single PA speaker or acoustic amp than that of a line array. If one were to set it up as a tripod mounted PA speaker or acoustic amp is typically oriented, one could avoid ear discomfort.

Originally Posted by Joe Barbieri

Hi Herb,

This is incorrect. As for Matt's review, my hat is off to anyone that takes the time to write about any product in such detail. I thank him for his review, even though it may not be a product for him. I also add, and I'm not trying to be a smart *** here, that he should see a doctor. It really sounds to me that he may have some issue with his ears causing this pain. As for his comment that we have marketed this as direct competition to the Bose system, that is also incorrect. We have in fact, taken great pains to point out the differences. Due to the shape and ID of the product comparisons may be inevitable, but they do not come from us. Honestly Matt, thanks for taking the time to add your opinions to the mix and take care of those ears.

Hi Joe,
We're are fortunate to have your join this discussion.

If Open-Road-Matt had some issue with his ears wouldn't the other PA system also cause him pain?

I must have missed where someone said that the Soloamp was being marketed as a product to compete with the Bose L1. I did say that the SoloAmp was being advertised as a compact line array. Still, comparisons are inevitable but any such comparisons should keep the very large price difference in mind.

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

Yes, because the SoloAmp is being advertised as a line array, or to use their qualifying term, a compact line array. The only other personal, line array PA system that I am aware of as being available in the US is the Bose L1. ...

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by Joe Barbieri

Hi Herb,

This is incorrect. As for Matt's review, my hat is off to anyone that takes the time to write about any product in such detail. I thank him for his review, even though it may not be a product for him. I also add, and I'm not trying to be a smart *** here, that he should see a doctor. It really sounds to me that he may have some issue with his ears causing this pain. As for his comment that we have marketed this as direct competition to the Bose system, that is also incorrect. We have in fact, taken great pains to point out the differences. Due to the shape and ID of the product comparisons may be inevitable, but they do not come from us. Honestly Matt, thanks for taking the time to add your opinions to the mix and take care of those ears.

Hi Joe!
Thanks for weighing in and thank you for your work! With all due respect, my ears are fine! Granted I haven't been at this very long. I've only been playing full time for 10 years and doing my own recording for about 4 years. In that time, I've used about as much gear as anyone I know. There have only been two products that have made my ears feel like this, 1) the Fishman Loudbox 100 and 2) the Fishman SoloAmp. I did indicate that my ears can be sensitive to things like cell phones and headphones but I've played through tons of sound systems and owned speakers by Crate, Yorkville, EAW, etc. and I've stood in front of a Bose L1 hundreds of times in the past 4 years and never experienced anything close to what I experienced with the Loudbox and the SoloAmp.

I mean Fishman no ill will, I've desperately wanted to love, own and use your products but it just hasn't worked out for me. And I bought the SoloAmp with every intention of it becoming a valuable piece of equipment for me.

Originally Posted by Joe Barbieri

As for his comment that we have marketed this as direct competition to the Bose system, that is also incorrect. We have in fact, taken great pains to point out the differences. Due to the shape and ID of the product comparisons may be inevitable, but they do not come from us. Honestly Matt, thanks for taking the time to add your opinions to the mix and take care of those ears.

I have been saying since yesterday that we should not be looking at the SoloAmp as competition to the L1 and that comparing the two is doing a disservice to the SoloAmp. But again, with respect, all of your marketing shows that the SoloAmp is to be used exactly as the L1. The demo video on your website shows it behind the performer and statements like this, "With SoloAmp, the performer and audience hear exactly the same sound, meaning there's no need for separate wedge monitors or a combo amp backline" (taken directly from the SoloAmp website) and "It's a P.A., and an Amp," are going to make people think that it is an alternative to the Bose L1 and thus in direct competition.

Here is what I said in my post:

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

It seems as if Fishman's marketing approach has been to bill the SoloAmp as being like the L1 and the video they show on their website shows someone using the SoloAmp like the L1 but my experience was quite different.

Now again, my experience may be the exception but I can't help but to think had Fishman billed the SoloAmp as a sweet sounding amp with much better coverage and disbursement than other amps and avoided the whole "It's an amp and a PA," and "you hear what your audience hears," stuff I might have looked at the SoloAmp in a much different light.

Matt

And I'm far from being the only one to lump the SoloAmp and the L1 together. Ever since it was announced there have been tons of threads and posts pondering how the two will compare. I didn't pull that comparison out of thin air. I made the comparison and wrote about it simply because it had been talked about here since the announcement of the SoloAmp and I needed to know where and when I would use each product.

I can understand your need to feel like you might want to do some "damage control" being that as of today, I'm one of only a few here on the AGF who has written about using the SoloAmp. I understand that my review will probably be made inconsequential and written off as, "Matt has something wrong with his ears," and that's fine. But I do want to reiterate how much I loved everything about the SoloAmp except that one thing. Please believe me when I say that the point of all of this was not to diminish the SoloAmp in any way, shape or form. I truly wanted to love it and use it for years! I hope reviews like Larry's, Mike's and TRW1's continue to pour in and that tons of folks enjoy all the good things about the SoloAmp!

Matt

[rmyAddison]

Well,

Since I am the organizer of the Bose/Fishman shootout at Guitar Center I guess I plead guilty to wanting to compare these products.

To me they do call out for comparison, both do recommend having this line array system behind you (didn't hear that years ago, and I've been playing and doing sound for 40 years).

The price comparison is apples to oranges, but that is up to everyone to weigh against their needs and budget. I did not notice discomfort with the SoloAmp but my mini audition was maybe 20 minutes.

Hopefully the 8th at GC will provide some feedback, looks like around a half dozen forum members will be there and we will be able to instantly A/B from a high end board they are setting up with vocal, guitar, instrument mike and recorded source channels. I will SPL off a control recorded source to make sure volumes at the main listening area are identical.

It isn't a contest it's comparing tools of the trade, and what's right for one person may not be right for another. Peace.

[alohachris]

Eh Brah,

Yeah, it must be your ears. Yeah, it must be being 6'4" (I'm 6'5" by the way). How bout the SA just didn't cut it for you. Good enough, right.

What's that Matt? You tink ya could a, mebbe talk a leetle louda, liddat, braddah? I no can heah you....

I still love ya, Matt. Even if you can't hear. Keep laughin!' Eh, why do portagee bulldogs have push in faces? Cuz dey chase pock cars, brah! Asswhy! (rim shot please)

Has this turned surreal? Let's all jess whap yo' jaws!

Still at work, guys. Jury's gonna be out on the Soloamp till we've all used it at our gigs for a month or so. I'll be the last to know.

I think I'll just keep that nice thou on ice right now, Joe.

Got to play tonight. It's Friday. It's a brewery (man am I a glutton for punishment or what?. Filling in for a friend). Glad I have two Daedalus 803 speakers!

Eh Larry, want to join me for a duo at the brewery?!?

A Hui Hou!
alohachris

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Eh Brah,

Glad I have two Daedalus 803 speakers!

Eh Larry, want to join me for a duo at the brewery?!?

A Hui Hou!
alohachris

Just curious how much do your Daedalus spks weight ? they are passive correct? if so you've probably said in other threads but what amp do you power them with ?? Thanks Kev

[MikeTX]

Well, MY desire, need, to compare the Bose L1 and the Fishman SoloAmp was and is absolutely NOT to find a winner and loser, or a good and bad, or to decide which one to purchase, or even recommend. I already own one or more of each. I, very practically to me, need to know WHICH one to use in what situations.

We Bose owners have seen and experienced a liberation from what seemed like an unworkable, unhaulable mass of gear. We have seen our musical performing lives extended, and our performances and abilities improved, because we now owned and used gear that was practical to haul, set up, use, and hear more clearly than we ever had before, and we shared this with audiences that either had never heard us at all or as clearly and pleasantly. So, this extended not only our performing music life, but our music life period. Now, certainly not everyone agrees with our equipment choice, and other players feel just as strongly about their favorite equipment. But that should not and does not diminish our feeling about our equipment, nor about our very real, very valid personal experiences. And guys, even and especially the many of you that have more technical knowledge about the equipment than me and the many like me, don't you also see that even if we are using the Bose equipment that you detest - we are MAKING MUSIC? We enjoy it! Our listeners enjoy it? Isn't that a GOOD THING? THE thing? Mercy!

SO... when we, current Bose owners, see yet another level of reduced mass of equipment, lighter, easier to set up and use - you BET we are interested! We MUST find out if the new thing is good ENOUGH for us to use, and in what situations. I bet only a miniscule percent of us, if any, regret our investment in Bose, which has almost certainly paid for itself already - so the price, cost and value issue simply does not matter to us. Do we care if the SoloAmp sounds exactly like the L1? Probably not - I sure don't. Do we care if the SoloAmp is or is not a true line array, or how Fishman chooses to promote it? Nope. Do we care if the SoloAmp disperses exactly like the L1? Well, somewhat - but our real concern is - does it fill the room - this room that I choose to use it in, can I hear it well enough, and will my audience still hear and enjoy my music, like they do when I use my Bose. To me, this is what I wanted to know, Matt, Larry, TRW... If so, then will using the SoloAmp be easier for me to haul, setup and use, in a high enough percentage of situations, to make me spend the purchase price?

So, yes, from the perspective of an existing Bose user, I believe the comparison is valid, is of great value, and is not with poor intention. And while each of our own opinions and decisions is the most important to us, hearing and learning the experiences of others is of value, or we wouldn't be interested in them.

I'm keeping my SoloAmp and can't wait to use it next, likewise my Bose!

Respectfully and positively,

Mike In Texas, Exiting Soapbox, hopefully for the last time but I'm not holding my breath :-)

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by MikeTX

Well, MY desire, need, to compare the Bose L1 and the Fishman SoloAmp was and is absolutely NOT to find a winner and loser, or a good and bad, or to decide which one to purchase, or even recommend. I already own one or more of each. I, very practically to me, need to know WHICH one to use in what situations.

We Bose owners have seen and experienced a liberation from what seemed like an unworkable, unhaulable mass of gear. We have seen our musical performing lives extended, and our performances and abilities improved, because we now owned and used gear that was practical to haul, set up, use, and hear more clearly than we ever had before, and we shared this with audiences that either had never heard us at all or as clearly and pleasantly. So, this extended not only our performing music life, but our music life period. Now, certainly not everyone agrees with our equipment choice, and other players feel just as strongly about their favorite equipment. But that should not and does not diminish our feeling about our equipment, nor about our very real, very valid personal experiences. And guys, even and especially the many of you that have more technical knowledge about the equipment than me and the many like me, don't you also see that even if we are using the Bose equipment that you detest - we are MAKING MUSIC? We enjoy it! Our listeners enjoy it? Isn't that a GOOD THING? THE thing? Mercy!

SO... when we, current Bose owners, see yet another level of reduced mass of equipment, lighter, easier to set up and use - you BET we are interested! We MUST find out if the new thing is good ENOUGH for us to use, and in what situations. I bet only a miniscule percent of us, if any, regret our investment in Bose, which has almost certainly paid for itself already - so the price, cost and value issue simply does not matter to us. Do we care if the SoloAmp sounds exactly like the L1? Probably not - I sure don't. Do we care if the SoloAmp is or is not a true line array, or how Fishman chooses to promote it? Nope. Do we care if the SoloAmp disperses exactly like the L1? Well, somewhat - but our real concern is - does it fill the room - this room that I choose to use it in, can I hear it well enough, and will my audience still hear and enjoy my music, like they do when I use my Bose. To me, this is what I wanted to know, Matt, Larry, TRW... If so, then will using the SoloAmp be easier for me to haul, setup and use, in a high enough percentage of situations, to make me spend the purchase price?

So, yes, from the perspective of an existing Bose user, I believe the comparison is valid, is of great value, and is not with poor intention. And while each of our own opinions and decisions is the most important to us, hearing and learning the experiences of others is of value, or we wouldn't be interested in them.

I'm keeping my SoloAmp and can't wait to use it next, likewise my Bose!

Respectfully and positively,

Mike In Texas, Exiting Soapbox, hopefully for the last time but I'm not holding my breath :-)

Excellent.

Thank you.

[Some Body]

From years of playing and doing sound for others, I understand how different a room can sound empty and then full (or slightly full).

People absorb sound, and they move around. It always makes a huge diffence when you're doing sound.

That's why I'm waiting to hear reviews based on real world conditions.

Matt.
I love the effort and time you've put in, and I.m sorry you aren't anywhere you can test it. I grew up a Marine Corps brat, so I kind of understand your situation, altho times are different.

I'm not pushing for the soloamp to be accepted, just that it gets used the way it's meant to.

You've done a great service here --- I'm lucky I found this.

Would you mind if I cross-referenced this to Harmony Central?