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Old 08-01-2018, 08:38 PM
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Default BAGGS M80 & ALIGN EQ DEMO

Yo peeps,

* I've had some inquires into my Martin D-18 equipped with a Baggs M80. So when I woke up this morning I thought I would do an impromptu demo of my Baggs M80 and my recently acquired Baggs Align EQ.

** I'm playing thru my Fishman Loudbox Artist and recorded with a simple Canon camera with it's own internal mic. The batteries gave out as I finished, but I hope that this might help those interested in the M80...see post #6 for my pics of amp & Align settings as well as pole height.

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Last edited by noledog; 01-17-2019 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 08-01-2018, 09:33 PM
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Well done Eric! What a great service to anyone considering an M80.

Your video tutorial offers tremendous insight to anyone considering a Baggs M80 Soundhole Mag PU. Your D-18 with M80 sounds incredible. So musical. I love the way you described how to optimize placement and pole height.

The video is long but well worth watching. The information is plentiful and there is a ton of wisdom from the experience of a very talented gigging professional.

Your touch is second to none my friend. I think that has a lot to do with why the M80 sounds so exceptional. I would personally be thrilled with the sound you get.

There are tonal aspects that I hear as 'magnetic.' They might bother me a little in a quiet intimate setting. You commented on the magnetic properties nicely. The M80 still sounds super pleasing and musical. You demonstrated how he Harmonics and percussive aspects are rewarding. But the overall musicality of the PU and the way it cuts and presents itself in a mix or loud bar would likely be neutralized entirely. Your comment about how "Your guitar but louder" is not always the best solution is well taken. Sometimes what works best is being able to 'cut through the mix and not get 'lost' in a noisy room.

So much to comment on, I'll leave it here for now.
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Old 08-02-2018, 12:22 AM
BluesKing777 BluesKing777 is offline
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Thanks Eric!

Very enjoyable video. Make some more, we'll watch 'em.

Now at the risk of being accused of hearing with my eyes , can we see what you did to the Align pedal for the M80? Like, can I do the same with my Fishman Pro-EQ?

I have a quandary for myself with the M80 - I love the sound on my Lowden O22 and a couple of guitars I tried, but then when I put it in the D18, it..well....stinks a bit. And then on my old 59 LG3 Gibson, the deep e string touches the pole....and then on my Blues King L-00 they all touch! So I would obviously have to move the poles down, but then wreck the sound as is for my Lowden O22. Pity it doesn't have an 'Undo' button!


BluesKing777.
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Old 08-02-2018, 02:54 AM
63telemaster 63telemaster is offline
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That's a great review and really shows how good this pickup can sound. It's the attention to detail and the time spent dialing it in which is so important with any kit in order to get good results and the M80 really benefits from this.

This video is a must watch for anyone setting up an M80 or indeed any other mag pickup as these basic rules will apply, particularly regarding placement and polepiece settings.

Obviously the player has a lot to do with this too and Ndog has a great touch and very good ears
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groberts View Post
Well done Eric! What a great service to anyone considering an M80.

Your video tutorial offers tremendous insight to anyone considering a Baggs M80 Soundhole Mag PU. Your D-18 with M80 sounds incredible. So musical. I love the way you described how to optimize placement and pole height.

The video is long but well worth watching. The information is plentiful and there is a ton of wisdom from the experience of a very talented gigging professional.

Your touch is second to none my friend. I think that has a lot to do with why the M80 sounds so exceptional. I would personally be thrilled with the sound you get.

There are tonal aspects that I hear as 'magnetic.' They might bother me a little in a quiet intimate setting. You commented on the magnetic properties nicely. The M80 still sounds super pleasing and musical. You demonstrated how he Harmonics and percussive aspects are rewarding. But the overall musicality of the PU and the way it cuts and presents itself in a mix or loud bar would likely be neutralized entirely. Your comment about how "Your guitar but louder" is not always the best solution is well taken. Sometimes what works best is being able to 'cut through the mix and not get 'lost' in a noisy room.

So much to comment on, I'll leave it here for now.
Thank you so much Grob-ee one Kano-bee! ...I know i went a lil' longer than anticipated but it was off the cuff and wanted to explain certain things in detail plus show the differences unplugged, Artist, and Artist + Align.

'Preeciate ya Gary!
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesKing777 View Post
Thanks Eric!

Very enjoyable video. Make some more, we'll watch 'em.

Now at the risk of being accused of hearing with my eyes , can we see what you did to the Align pedal for the M80? Like, can I do the same with my Fishman Pro-EQ?

I have a quandary for myself with the M80 - I love the sound on my Lowden O22 and a couple of guitars I tried, but then when I put it in the D18, it..well....stinks a bit. And then on my old 59 LG3 Gibson, the deep e string touches the pole....and then on my Blues King L-00 they all touch! So I would obviously have to move the poles down, but then wreck the sound as is for my Lowden O22. Pity it doesn't have an 'Undo' button!


BluesKing777.
* Thanks much BK!

** As I explained in the vid, pole adjustments will vary guitar to guitar so yes you may have to adjust them every time you switch; or just get a second unit...would be cool to have a button that remembers your settings like they have in cars nowadays! LOL

*** Here are some pics of my Artist (chan. 2) and Align settings as well as of my pole height, hope they help as well buddy! ...adjusting the notch filter and the phase are very crucial to optimizing the tone as well.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 60-.JPG (68.1 KB, 270 views)
File Type: jpg 61+.JPG (115.6 KB, 271 views)
File Type: jpg 62-.JPG (39.3 KB, 267 views)
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Last edited by noledog; 08-02-2018 at 04:40 PM.
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  #7  
Old 08-02-2018, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 63telemaster View Post
That's a great review and really shows how good this pickup can sound. It's the attention to detail and the time spent dialing it in which is so important with any kit in order to get good results and the M80 really benefits from this.

This video is a must watch for anyone setting up an M80 or indeed any other mag pickup as these basic rules will apply, particularly regarding placement and polepiece settings.

Obviously the player has a lot to do with this too and Ndog has a great touch and very good ears
Thank you 63T for the kind words and taking time to listen and comment!
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Old 08-02-2018, 10:32 AM
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Eric,

I expect you are using the align EQ as 'always' on? Bro, you really nailed the nuances of setting up the M80. I will likely order an Align EQ to add some fine tuning to my rig. If it doesn't work out, I can return it.

having a Notch, Phase and EQ in a single footprint pedal that size is highly desirable and I'll bet its quiet and musical on the gig. Thanks again for the great tutorial.

Again I have to compliment your touch, talent and skill. less players may or may not get as musical of a sound with the same gear.
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  #9  
Old 08-02-2018, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groberts View Post
Eric,

I expect you are using the align EQ as 'always' on? Bro, you really nailed the nuances of setting up the M80. I will likely order an Align EQ to add some fine tuning to my rig. If it doesn't work out, I can return it.

having a Notch, Phase and EQ in a single footprint pedal that size is highly desirable and I'll bet its quiet and musical on the gig. Thanks again for the great tutorial.

Again I have to compliment your touch, talent and skill. less players may or may not get as musical of a sound with the same gear.
Gary,

When performing with the D18/M80 the Align stays on, but with the KC70 Tak it's not quite as needed due to it's own preamp eq capabilities.The 000-18's F1AP is so good on it's own that I have not experimented with it much...I mainly bought the Align to pair with the D-18/M80 and it's a winning combo imo.

Thanks again broham for the kind words!

eric
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Old 08-02-2018, 12:48 PM
MrErikJ MrErikJ is offline
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Brilliant demo and a fine example of the importance of EQ, regardless of your pickup. The M80 (and M1) are great simplifications of the classic mag and SBT/mic dual source and with deliberate use of EQ, and an understanding of what freqs need adjustment, you can get a very impressive tone. Again, great work.

I cheat a little, I use a passive LB6 into a Tonebone PZ Pre and do some basic EQ at the preamp (leave bass flat or cut 1 degree, cut mids around 1-1.2khz, boost treble 1 degree) and then use a TC Body Rez in the effects loop to cut the low mids and add some compression and saturation to smooth-out the piezo response. It's probably less precise but is pretty effective. I'm considering adding a Lyric into the guitar and mixing it at the PZ Pre, I'm curious if I'll be able to get a good EQ with the same set-up.
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Old 08-02-2018, 04:49 PM
BluesKing777 BluesKing777 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noledog View Post
* Thanks much BK!

** As I explained in the vid, pole adjustments will vary guitar to guitar so yes you may have to adjust them every time you switch; or just get a second unit...would be cool to have a button that remembers your settings like they have in cars nowadays! LOL

*** Here are some pics of my Artist and Align settings as well as of my pole height, hope they help as well buddy! ...adjusting the notch filter and the phase are very crucial to optimizing the tone as well.


Thanks Eric!

One reason, apart from madness, that I went down the soundhole pickup path to experiment is the 'plug and play' threads of recent posts. You know, easy guitarring, easy living, turn up to the gig/blues jam/friend's house and just plug the guitar lead in. I have 'plug and play' in my Maton SRS808 and its pickup system, and my Martin D18E Retro.....

But then I said: "I want to take the Lowden O22 or my Martin OM18 Authentic for the different sounds and necks etc!" But really, I just wanted a pickup to put in my 'guitar of the moment' without altering the guitar permanently.

Now I am liking my Baggs M80 very much but having to take an EQ box like my Pro-EQ or buying and Align to zap some cloinkiness makes it not so 'plug and play'...if I have to take another box and guitar lead/power lead, honestly, in a hurry I would still grab the Maton! People hate the pickup controls on the side but it sure makes it easy, and the sweepable mid control is very good for getting that troiky mid that usually ruins everything....


Except I want to play my Lowden LSE1 at the blues jam.....now I doubt anyone there would have ever heard slide in Open F on a Lowden LSE1! But I have the M80 in the hole, a lead out to my Fishman Pro EQ DI and then smoothing everything out and giving me a second notch filter is my Tonedexter preamp with the wavemaps turned OFF.....killer slide sound! But by the time I set up, the soundman would be getting anxious and the crowd gone to the bar.....



BluesKing777.
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Old 08-02-2018, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrErikJ View Post
Brilliant demo and a fine example of the importance of EQ, regardless of your pickup. The M80 (and M1) are great simplifications of the classic mag and SBT/mic dual source and with deliberate use of EQ, and an understanding of what freqs need adjustment, you can get a very impressive tone. Again, great work.

I cheat a little, I use a passive LB6 into a Tonebone PZ Pre and do some basic EQ at the preamp (leave bass flat or cut 1 degree, cut mids around 1-1.2khz, boost treble 1 degree) and then use a TC Body Rez in the effects loop to cut the low mids and add some compression and saturation to smooth-out the piezo response. It's probably less precise but is pretty effective. I'm considering adding a Lyric into the guitar and mixing it at the PZ Pre, I'm curious if I'll be able to get a good EQ with the same set-up.
Thanks a bunch Erik! ...ya know the Lyric sounds really nice when dialed in. The high pass filter and Notch filter on the Align along with the eq itself would work really nice with a Lyric to tame the low-mid freq and resonant feedback. The 700 to 2k seems to be the area I find I have to fine tune the most. I've looked at the Tonebone but never plugged in, they look pretty versatile and surgical. Thanks again, nice to hear from you!

eric
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Old 08-03-2018, 04:28 AM
AeroUSA AeroUSA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesKing777 View Post
Thanks Eric!

One reason, apart from madness, that I went down the soundhole pickup path to experiment is the 'plug and play' threads of recent posts. You know, easy guitarring, easy living, turn up to the gig/blues jam/friend's house and just plug the guitar lead in. I have 'plug and play' in my Maton SRS808 and its pickup system, and my Martin D18E Retro.....

But then I said: "I want to take the Lowden O22 or my Martin OM18 Authentic for the different sounds and necks etc!" But really, I just wanted a pickup to put in my 'guitar of the moment' without altering the guitar permanently.

Now I am liking my Baggs M80 very much but having to take an EQ box like my Pro-EQ or buying and Align to zap some cloinkiness makes it not so 'plug and play'...if I have to take another box and guitar lead/power lead, honestly, in a hurry I would still grab the Maton! People hate the pickup controls on the side but it sure makes it easy, and the sweepable mid control is very good for getting that troiky mid that usually ruins everything....


Except I want to play my Lowden LSE1 at the blues jam.....now I doubt anyone there would have ever heard slide in Open F on a Lowden LSE1! But I have the M80 in the hole, a lead out to my Fishman Pro EQ DI and then smoothing everything out and giving me a second notch filter is my Tonedexter preamp with the wavemaps turned OFF.....killer slide sound! But by the time I set up, the soundman would be getting anxious and the crowd gone to the bar.....



BluesKing777.
What is your main choice for live pick up right now? Is it not K&K (or similar) to Tone Dexter?
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Old 08-03-2018, 09:26 AM
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* I'm glad everyone is enjoying this lil' tutorial on the M80/Align EQ combo, it has it's advantages and applications that I really enjoy! That being said, it still ranks 3rd in my plug n play amplified trifecta; especially without the EQ.

** True plug n play still has my F1AP at #1 followed closely by Takamine's Palathetic/Cooltube system...the F1 Aura Plus rules for now, TBC...

*** The nice thing is that there are so many fine choices and combos you can put together to meet you specific needs and style; the M80 is one among many that has an enjoyable track record...

eric
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Old 08-03-2018, 10:01 AM
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Thanks for taking your time to do this. Nicely done.

Steve
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