Takaminie 1976 Lawsuit era.

[Beakybird]

Originally Posted by Haasome

Add me to the Guild lawsuit Guitars with this Tak F390S that I bought new around the mid-late 1970s (no electronics) and still own.

Beautiful instrument!
But if I played that Takamine, I would have a Guildy conscience!

[KenL]

***groan***

[Neil K Walk]

I have a 1973 F360 that I received in 1992 that was my college beater. It was good enough for taking to strum at the quad or play at the occasional party. I don't know the value of mine but it was not looked after well so YMMV with another example. Bear in mind though that any 40 year old guitar is going to need work eventually.

Mine had no electronics and featured the plywood top; the F360S had a solid spruce top but still the laminated rosewood back and sides that had a thin layer of a white wood sandwiched between. The neck was mahogany with a "stacked heel" (there is a visible glue line indicating that the neck is at least two pieces. The fingerboard and bridge are rosewood. Unlike the D-28 there is no volute on the back of the neck. The stock tuning machines were unsealed but enclosed nickle ones that failed so I replaced them with a $40 set of basic sealed Gotoh tuners that were worth the cost IMO.

I do not feel that that guitar would have been worth $400 today solely because of the fact that the top is three layers of spruce laminated together. That only means that it's slightly less prone to changes in humidity but really the tone is going to be quieter than a solid top guitar and it's certainly NOT going to be any less resistant to heat stress that caused the bridge to lift or a brace underneath coming loose. That was what ultimately killed this guitar - but in an effort to restore it I decided to "look under the hood" with the intention of replacing the top. Here's what I found:



EDIT: for reference here is a picture of the Martin demo top I mentioned. Apologies since Photobucket is currently still holding it hostage so I can only provide the link. Notice the difference in bracing size/shape:
http://s727.photobucket.com/user/nkw...l?sort=3&o=405

- the neck joint is NOT a dovetail or even a mortise/tenon. It is a pinned butt joint, meaning that if you're thinking of resetting the neck think again. Odds are more likely that the neck block has separated from the inside of the body. That was something that heat stress had done to mine as well.

- the bracing is beefy. For a time I had in my possession one of those demo tops that Martin gives to its dealers to show their bracing patterns. I noted that the stock Martin 5/16" bracing is much more refined (chiseled and finely sanded) than what I found on my F360 when I routed off the top. If I were to buy one that was intact I would be inclined to reach inside with a piece of sandpaper and whittle away at the lower arms of the X brace and tone bars on the lower bout.

- I also discovered that the bridge plate on my F360 was actually a large plate made of spruce, not maple or rosewood. IME and IMO a large part of a guitar's tone lies in the bridge plate and spruce is a soft wood whose only purpose I can think of would to reinforce a solid top that is too thin - which given that my guitar has a laminated top is a moot point. If anything, having a soft bridge plate offers little protection against bridge pin/ball end damage and protection against bridge shear. While I admit I did have the guitar worked on by a luthier who admitted to doing a "slip block" neck reset using epoxy for the price I paid I highly doubt that he swapped out the bridge plate when he glued down the bridge.

- before all of this I actually did purchase a Martin dread, but it is a D-16GT with different bracing (A frame but still 5/16" with a slight scallop on the lower X and smaller twin tone bars) and a solid spruce top that has some mineral streaks and runout - not to mention solid mahogany back and sides and a Spanish cedar neck with an artificial ebony substitute for the bridge and fretboard. Even still, this Martin was a huge upgrade in tone and quality. Mine is an older one (2009) and I've seen them around for $800 or less.

So in summary, does the F360 sound like a D28? No. Does the F360 compare in quality to a true Martin? No. Is it worth $400? Probably not, but it depends on condition but I wouldn't pay more than $300 for one in excellent condition. Does the "lawsuit" name give it some allure with collectors? Probably not. It's a copy and Martin's current low end offerings (even the X series) far outshine it IMO.

[Mooh]

Not sure what year my Takamine dread was, I bought it new about 1977/8, but I don't know how long the store had it. From a few feet away it was a visual dead ringer for a Martin. Decent sound, great playability, but not quite up to Martin's tone standards. Played it until '95 when I got a Beneteau...no contest there. Sold the Tak to a Martin collector, he wanted a beater for his boat.

After a gig one time some guy approaches me and asks me why I didn't play my Martin anymore. I told him I'd never owned a Martin so he excused himself saying he must have me confused with someone else.

[PorkPieGuy]

I only played one, and it was a dud.

[zombywoof]

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

... and Martin wasn't the only headstock design Takamine was asked to change.
The folks at Guild weren't too happy with this one either.

Nor were the folks at Gibson happy with Ibanez and sent them a cease and desist order regarding the open book headstocks. Apparently, however, Ibanez had already stopped using the offending headstock the year before.

"Lawsuit" is really just another in a long list of marketing terms designed to sell a guitar by implying there is a certain quality. Does not mean that the quality is not there but it also does not mean that it is.

[Groberts]

Originally Posted by Jodyg888

Hi folks
Does anyone have experience playing and owning a Takaminie Lawsuit
Era F360 1976. I guy wants to sell it. I’m thinking about it
Does it have the big sound and okay well??? I appreciate any feed back
Thanks
Jody

I know someone selling a lawsuit era Takamine if interested, let me know and I'll out you in touch.

[bluesfreek]

This thread is 1.5 years old but I'll chime in here. I recall those old Martin headstock Takamines and saw many of them in the 80's. The bass player in my old band still has one he bought in 1980. It has the built in electronics and the thinnest neck and most uncomfortably cramped fretboard width of any guitar I have ever played. It didn't sound bad but it was terrible to play because of the neck/fretboard. I have small hands too. He never plays it and has a newer (higher end) all solid wood Norman acoustic which he enjoys more.

[semolinapilcher]

I have an F-400 from that era. Dead ringer for a 12-string Martin style 28.

I bought it about 15 years ago because the neck was still straight and low.

I am sure other 12-strings sound better but for me the stability was proven and it plays really great to this day.

All laminate... but I’m sure that’s a key piece of its longevity. At $275 it was/is one of my best purchases!