#46
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Thanks for that, Cobby - I like your approach
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#47
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That's fine, if you're going to be happy with whatever you discover. It's silly if it's going to make you feel inferior to all those better then you.
Then again, you can always feel superior to those worse than you! Hey, there's a whole lot people who can't even play guitar at all! You're better than them! Quote:
Just taking the informal guesses in the first post on that page "Let’s say in order to play the guitar you must: 1. Be between 6–64 years of age." I'm 70. Plenty of guitar players are a lot older than me, So you need to add at least 10 years to that upper limit, and maybe 20. "So this lowers our number to 6.8 billion people." I don't know how my adjustment would affect that, but let's bump it to 8 billion, to be on the safe side. "2. Are in the economical middle class range to afford a guitar. So this lowers are number to 3 billion people." Where does that figure come from? Is it saying that no working class person ever plays the guitar? That's clearly ridiculous. Guitars are cheap enough today, and people can still borrow or steal guitars. And of course plenty of poverty-stricken folks in the third world manage to find (or build) guitars to play. "3. Are interested in music. So this lowers our number to 2.5 billion people" All humans - or at least the vast majority - are "interested in music", to some degree. At least, they all like listening to it, at one time or another. Different societies and cultures do vary hugely in the proportion of people who might be interested in actually playing an instrument. In the west that's definitely a minority, although probably quite a large minority. It would be a smaller minority who choose guitar, of course, as opposed to other instruments. And among those, there are lots who start and give up. Only a minority of those who start will continue - and for varying lengths of time. So you need to factor in "people playing guitar now" and "people who used to play guitar but gave up". The latter do have some ability, even if they stopped decades ago, so shouldn't be excluded from your ranking criteria. "4. let’s say if you have 5 friends then 1 of your friends also plays guitar." Why? Based on what? Even for professional musicians, maybe no more than 5 of their friends play guitar, but all of them will be in a minority just by being musicians. For people who are not musicians, maybe none of their friends plays guitar. For other people, amateur or professional, maybe most of their closest friends play guitar. This kind of "Let's say" is so vague as to be worthless. We end up with no better then the common sense assumption that a "minority" of people play guitar. How big is that minority? AFAIK, no one has the faintest idea. Personally I would guess around 1% of the global population (above the age of 4 or 5, but with no upper limit). But it might be 0.5%, it might be 1.5%. In the west, the figure is almost certainly higher, but maybe still under 5%. Quote:
BTW, what is this "normal curve" you're referring to? I didn't find any graphs in that link. Quote:
Again, sorry if it's explained somewhere in that link, but i didn't see it. Quote:
(I mean, this doesn't matter in the slightest, of course, but I'd like to play the game for a little while. Quote:
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"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen. Last edited by JonPR; 04-01-2020 at 08:17 AM. |
#48
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I use the "open mic" method of evaluating my playing. Sometimes I hear a performer and think to myself "that's awful, I sure hope he doesn't ask me to accompany him". Other times I hear a bonafide virtuoso play and think to myself "if this guy asks me if I play, I'll just say no".
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#49
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I always say yes, in both cases! Occasionally I've regretted it, but only at the extremes. I.e., if the bad performer simply doesn't have a clue what they're doing (can't keep time, forgets where they are, etc), or if the good one simply leaves me in the dust. But mostly, in the first case, they're grateful and complimentary, and always buy me a drink, and their set always goes down better than it would normally (and I share in that). In the second case, professional performers are usually extremely generous and accommodating - provided I know what I'm doing of course - and it's a real pleasure to play with people who know exactly what they're doing. It's much easier than playing with amateurs who either play with shaky timing, or overplay, leaving you no room. That's because they actually don't understand how to play with someone else - to share and listen. Pros always understand that, and leave room, allowing you to fit in. Whenever I've played with people better than myself, 99% of the time it's been hugely enjoyable, even thrilling. It's been smooth and easy - rather like playing a beautifully made and set-up guitar in comparison with a cheap one; you don't feel you have to force anything or over-compensate. The 1% has been when they've been seriously good and have been relying on me to keep up in a support role, overestimating my skill and speed. Then it's like being on a roller-coaster that you're not properly strapped into... The worst people to play with are those who aren't very good, but think they are, and then blame you for all their mistakes.... Of course, all of this is somewhat academic these days... Hopefully, in a few months, even if it's a year, we can get back to some semblance of normality. By then I might be grateful to play with even the dumbest idiot....
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"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen. |
#50
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Timing is vastly overlooked in rating a player. It covers many things as you mentioned, and serves the song more than a more skilled played with marginal rhythm.
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McCollum Grand Auditorum Euro Spruce/Brazilian PRS Hollowbody Spruce PRS SC58 Giffin Vikta Gibson Custom Shop ES 335 '59 Historic RI ‘91 Les Paul Standard ‘52 AVRI Tele - Richie Baxt build Fender American Deluxe Tele Fender Fat Strat |
#51
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Yeah, there's absolutely no passion in an academically-oriented music such as classical...
__________________
-Gordon 1978 Larrivee L-26 cutaway 1988 Larrivee L-28 cutaway 2006 Larrivee L03-R 2009 Larrivee LV03-R 2016 Irvin SJ cutaway 2020 Irvin SJ cutaway (build thread) K+K, Dazzo, Schatten/ToneDexter Notable Journey website Facebook page Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art. - Leonardo Da Vinci |
#52
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Man o man, what a hornets nest I seem to have kicked with this topic.
Truly, all I ever wanted to find among a forum full of guitar players was how folks might come up with an arbitrary list of those playing skills that could be loosely associated with a particular level of guitar mastery, or lack thereof, depending on whether you're a cup full or cup half empty kind of person. For example, say you are a guitar instructor who desires to teach a beginner, intermediate, and advanced guitar playing class. You bring in 3 students and have them play a song that they feel is one they can play fairly well and is at or near the top of their guitar playing ability. In your mind, you assess each one. Player number one is holding the guitar upside down. Obviously a beginner. Player number two fingerpicks The Boxer by Paul Simon pretty cleanly using an alternating bass, a thumb wrap over the top on a particular barre chord while playing some full bar chords in other places, throws in a couple of ascending and descending bass runs, and inserts a diminished chord int the chorus section. Hmm... looks like an intermediate player. Player three launches into an extended solo run to kick off a spirited version of Classical Gas, a la Tommy Emmanuel style with hybrid plectrum/finger picking, percussive accents and exotic chord forms that extend 5 frets or more, all while never once gazing at the fretboard that he is traversing top to bottom and back up again at lightning speed and finally finishing with a frenetic solo run ending flourish that has you wanting to stand and applaud. Hey, this guy is definitely an advanced player. Obviously you could add other players and include bluegrass flatpickers, jazz players, classical players , folk strummers, etc, but the basic premise is essentially the same. What skill do you look for to delineate players into various skill levels? That's it, not trying to: Compare you to anyone else Measure heart, soul, or political affiliation Be a definitive answer to why music exits in the universe Really not much different that an NFL scout assessing a college quarterback based on various skills such as arm strength, ability to throw accurate out route, touch on soft passes, footwork and ability to scramble, etc. Yes, it's not scientific and doesn't measure an athletes intelligence and heart, but it's just an exercise in attempting to rate skills. |
#53
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Spock, you ignorant...... *
* early SNL reference. AKA a joke. Stand down. |
#54
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Quote:
From a steel string guitarist perspective: Can't play - non player. Beginner - learning chord shapes, but cannot switch between them in a musical fashion Low intermediate - can change most chords smoothly, has some problems with barre chords. Mostly a strummer with some rudimentary flat pick skills. If learning finger style than just beginning to understand using the thumb as the other fingers are used. Relies on "patterns" to gain dexterity in the right hand. Intermediate - can play barre chords up and down the neck. Can strum, cross pick or play finger style in a musical fashion. Might know some theory. **Edit** - Theory can be learned at the earlier "levels" too, it is independent of playing skill imho. Advanced - good question. The level(s) of advanced is a mixture of years of practice, gigging experience and musical knowledge. This "chart" is more of a color wheel with the borders blurring from one to the other.
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Barry Youtube! My SoundCloud page Avalon L-320C, Guild D-120, Martin D-16GT, McIlroy A20, Pellerin SJ CW Cordobas - C5, Fusion 12 Orchestra, C12, Stage Traditional Alvarez AP66SB, Seagull Folk Aria {Johann Logy}: Last edited by TBman; 04-01-2020 at 01:23 PM. |
#55
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It's all too broad, really. I have stuff I'm good at, stuff I'm not. Theres no "skill" for guitar playing.
Basically, in any given situation, the question is, can you hang, or not? Terms like "advanced beginner." Meaningless. Only lever to ever be is LEARNER. |
#56
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#57
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ssjk,
Too funny. I love it. I am seasoned enough to get the both the SNL and the Point/Counterpoint reference that inspired it, as well as one who can still laugh at a joke as well as myself. No offense taken, on the contrary, I laughed out loud. Thank you. TBman, Bless you. I like your assessment. Just the kind of thinking I was hoping for. |
#58
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Ratings are bestowed, not claimed. Asking someone to rate their own playing is an invalid question. All subjective, all relative to the audience's whims, all without any method or measure, it's really kind of a foolish inquiry.
To assess something in a more objective manner the player needs to demonstrate, rather than claim, a certain skill level. That would be conducted by assembling genres, music from each and then stacking their respective levels of (perceived) difficulty. These songs would represent a kind of grading standard that replaces an otherwise useless method of inquiry. Assessing skill levels is a moving target to determine. But, the foregoing at least sets a baseline and a plateau for incrementing progress. |
#59
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In the immortal words of Charlie Brown, "Good grief" I give up. I really do. Moderators feel free to close or let it die a slow death. |
#60
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Live long and prosper Spock.
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Barry Youtube! My SoundCloud page Avalon L-320C, Guild D-120, Martin D-16GT, McIlroy A20, Pellerin SJ CW Cordobas - C5, Fusion 12 Orchestra, C12, Stage Traditional Alvarez AP66SB, Seagull Folk Aria {Johann Logy}: Last edited by TBman; 04-03-2020 at 10:21 PM. |