K&K Pure Mini sensitivity

[duojet]

I have a K&K pure mini installed in my acoustic. Although it sounds okay,I find that the overly-sensitive transducers make the guitar almost unusable for quality live sound.Just touching the guitar bridge pins or anywhere near,causes unwanted sound- such as audible clicks and brushing sounds simply from touching the soundboard etc. Very irritating and a deal-breaker for any decent acoustic amplification. My questions: Is this simply the nature of under-bridge transducer pickup systems? Do non-transducer types reduce/minimize the noise?I play through a P.A. with the K&K pure preamp. Thanks!

[alnico5]

I installed my K&K in 2005 and have never had a bit of trouble as you describe. The guitar sounds as good as I have any expectation to hope. My first thought is incorrect installation.

[sdelsolray]

SBT-type pickups do amplify handling noises, such as you describe, more so than other types of pickups. Here are two possible ways to mitigate this:

1) Some of the handling noises generate rather low frequencies. Use a high pass EQ filter (with a steep slope) beginning at the lower frequency of your guitar (82 Hz for standard tuning, 73 Hz for dropped D and 65 Hz for dropped C). This won't remove all handling noise, but it will reduce some of it.

2) Take inventory of how the handling noises are being generated. It is your movements/actions that cause them. Consider training yourself to avoid the movements/actions that are not needed to make music.

[James May]

What the OP describes is a byproduct of sound board transducers in general, including K&K. Remember, it is amplifying the sound board, which is another name for the top of your guitar.

The degree to which this occurs will vary considerably from guitar to guitar, depending on how lively the top is, and the stiffness of the bridge plate, as well as the position of the braces.

That said, my Ultra Tonic pickup reduces this top plate sensitivity by at least 10dB, since it directly corresponds to feedback sensitivity. And to use the vernacular, "10dB is HUGE".

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by duojet

I have a K&K pure mini installed in my acoustic. Although it sounds okay,I find that the overly-sensitive transducers make the guitar almost unusable for quality live sound.Just touching the guitar bridge pins or anywhere near,causes unwanted sound- such as audible clicks and brushing sounds simply from touching the soundboard etc. Very irritating and a deal-breaker for any decent acoustic amplification. My questions: Is this simply the nature of under-bridge transducer pickup systems? Do non-transducer types reduce/minimize the noise?I play through a P.A. with the K&K pure preamp. Thanks!

Hi duo jet…

Of course…it's very microphonic when you touch anything on the top of the guitar. It's a CONTACT pickup array, and designed to pick all the sound connected to the bridge area and the sound radiating via the top.

This is true of any Sound Board Transducer. It's also true (to a lesser degree) of under saddle pickups.

Why are you touching the pins or bridge? Perhaps you are a soft player with the pickup really cranked up? Just curious…

I have a friend who drops the side of his hand on the bridge when he strums, and the K&K came and went for him in 2 days. He just 'BOOMED' his way through a gig. He's 50 yrs old and not adapting his style, so he found something else that doesn't boom-a-boom when he plays.

Actually percussive players love K&K BECAUSE it picks up the 'other' sounds. If you want to eliminate all the stay noise from touching the guitar, then use a magnetic pickup. The tone won't be as good, but you won't have stray noise, and it will pretty bullet-proof from feed-back too.

[stevecuss]

Yep, a K&K and other SBT pickups can be an adjustment, but a worthwhile one, IMO.

A few quick tips:

- it sounds like either your gain is cranked or you may have to adjust the way you physically approach the guitar. This actually is not as daunting as it may sound. I had to adjust twice in my long playing life - once when I first installed a pickup and once when I recorded for an album. All manner of nasty habits had to go away.

- a Soundhole plug can solve a multitude of SBT 'hot' issues

- so can some surgical EQ with a parametric.

Not necessarily in that order, but probably.

K&K is a great pickup - it isn't for everyone and isn't as robust as a UST style, but I prefer its more natural sound by a long shot personally.

[duojet]

Thanks to all for such great replies to my query. Thanks Larry J,for confirming my suspicion that transducer -style pickups do amplify"handling" noises. The reason that I am touching the bridge pins and bridge is simply because I play fingerstyle etc with slightly palm-muted strings much like Tommy Emmanuel etc.... So yes I would probably have to make adjustments to accommodate the sensitivity of the K&K. Installation was properly done--and the K&K does sound good-if one can play without touching the top surface of the guitar.Thanks Sedelsoray for the eq suggestion-it does help in reducing the noisiness but eq's out an ideal mix/tone. Might be that the K&K is just not that great for a very lively guitar top/soundboard??...such as my Larrivee L-03R

[gfirob]

I have K&K's on three guitars and I think I am a fairly physical player, and I play with metal picks, but I have never had the kind of issue you are describing (I am playing through a Tonedexter, then a mixer). If I tap the top of the guitar, you really hear it, but I never remember hearing handling noises. Maybe you have a much more discerning ear for the noise than I do.

[duojet]

Thanks for the reply gfirob.... I am feeling better about keeping the K&K now,since it seems pretty convincing to the merits of the pickup,since so many players install it in multiple guitars.(which is why I picked it for my guitar in the first place!) I have experimented with running the signal through not only my Pure pre-amp,but also through a GE-7. Cutting the higher frequencies a little more than I would normally, does help reduce the noise(fret noise in particular was buggin' me- - like I was deliberately trying to amplify that sound.Pretty bad.) Anyway,going to try at stage volume again next week and see.

[Gordon Currie]

Originally Posted by duojet

Might be that the K&K is just not that great for a very lively guitar top/soundboard??...such as my Larrivee L-03R

I've got four L-size Larrivees that sound great with K+K. I mostly do picking though. I agree that the sensitivity of this particular SBT takes a little getting used to.

[Mr. Jelly]

I've played with K & Ks for years on different guitars. I never even came close to a problem like this. There must be a reason.

[Molder]

If I set the gain like they describe in the pure preamp directions, it’s way too hot. I never even come close to what they ask for. More like gain at 8 or 9 O’clock, and volume at 12 o’clock.

Dave

[jsandbloom]

I had some similar issues on a pure mini install that I did myself. I really botched the install. I had to send it in and have them replace the one I messed up and put another one in. Since a pro did it I hadn't had any of those issues your speaking of.

[martingitdave]

OP,

You should also pay very close attention the preamp stage in your signal chain. Many of us use K&K on a daily basis. While handling noise is more than an under-saddle pickup, it usually isn't distracting or detracting. However, if you have the gain (volume) of your preamp too high, all of those handling noises will be more noticeable. You can try turning down your preamp and turning up your amp (to normalize the same volume) to see if that is part of your problem.

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

You can try turning down your preamp and turning up your amp (to normalize the same volume) to see if that is part of your problem.

Something doesn't sound quite right with this. Can you expand?