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  #31  
Old 11-28-2018, 05:04 AM
jazzguy jazzguy is offline
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Originally Posted by ghostnote View Post
So many things contribute to how an amp sounds on any given day that it's hard to quantify in words, no matter how articulate one might be. There are days when I find my tone lacking, and my playing uninspired as a result. I'll come back the next day - same guitar, same amp, same exact settings on both - and it's beautiful. Fabulous, chills-inducing tone that makes me play and sing the way I always want to, but sometimes can't. Go figure. Having said that:
I love my Katana 100.
I love my EC Vibro Champ.
I love my Mustang III.
I love my Princeton Reverb.
I like all my amps, and there are lots of 'em, but you get the idea: There are crappy SS amps, and there are good ones. There are crappy tube amps, and there are good ones. And as players, we have crappy days, and good ones.
I like your amps too! I forgot to mention in my original OP post that I had a Mustang III V2 too! Also a very decent SS amp.
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  #32  
Old 11-28-2018, 08:57 AM
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I really like the tone of the "Milkman" amps until I saw the price...really?? Starting at 1500.00, if you really "need" that sound it is very good but...for home use? Sorry, I'll check out some others.
I agree the Milkman is the more desirable sound (for me) but as far as the price ? for a boutique style USA made amp, is actually pretty competitive..
Now obviously everyone's realistic budgets can be very different,,,, but I do not think "for home use" makes any difference... people buy $1500 + guitars "for home use" also, or spend that and more for home TV or Home Theater. It is a matter of personal priorities not location or use.
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  #33  
Old 11-28-2018, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
I agree the Milkman is the more desirable sound (for me) but as far as the price ? for a boutique style USA made amp, is actually pretty competitive..
Now obviously everyone's realistic budgets can be very different,,,, but I do not think "for home use" makes any difference... people buy $1500 + guitars "for home use" also, or spend that and more for home TV or Home Theater. It is a matter of personal priorities not location or use.
My own research confirms their price is in line with the type/quality of their component choices. There's a range of quality/price on all the bits between (and including) the 3-prong plug and speaker, and their stuff, like most higher quality boutique amps, is top drawer.
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  #34  
Old 11-29-2018, 12:16 AM
maxtheaxe maxtheaxe is offline
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I came to this conclusion long ago. I've posted about my fave amp before, but will reiterate here; the Tubeworks TD752 combo, (as well as TD752ES head) is an early 90s-era hybrid, with a Butler/Chandler Tube Driver preamp built into it, with what they call 'MosValve' power amp...a 100 watt mosfet solid state power amp that's been 'tuned' to emulate the reaction of tubes to audio signal....and it is LOUD!

These things weigh about 25 lbs and have a really great, very tube-like clean tone; or kick in the TubeDriver preamp and it can go from slightly furry to nasty blasting distortion. Also, they LOVE pedals...really a perfect set-up for big complex pedal board.

I bought my first one new, out of the close-out bin of a local music store, about 1991...in later years when they were going for about $100.00 bucks I bought another one just to have a spare....not that I'll ever need a spare, as these are known for their extreme reliability...and they are being discovered...price is going up a bit, but you can still get one for under $300.00, if you can find it.

They're quite good all on their own, but personally I use mine with a 1st gen Line6 POD front end and a compressor pedal before that. I have replaced the old speakers (Eminence Legend 12-ish) with Celestions...V30 in one, V-Series in the other, and I use a 1x12 Avatar extension cab with a V30, for gigs...little extra low end punch.

These things go against everything that most people assume about solid state amps, except for the light weight and reliability. They also make for a very nice blank slate if you like to run a pedal board or, like me, a modeling preamp. In terms of power they will stand up to almost anything...even though they're about the size & weight of a little practice amp.

I have 3 other nice tube amps...I use these Tubeworks amps to gig with.
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  #35  
Old 11-29-2018, 12:43 AM
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Funny - in Audiophile circles and magazines, I have always understood Audiophile to be 100% about "faithful reproduction/applification of an audio signal". It's about reproducing at home what was intended in the recording studio. That is why there are often no tone controls, etc on audiophile equipment.

Hi-fi - is somewhat about the above too, but IMO leans toward having a good clean stereo / video system to reproduce the sound - with lots of ability to customize with tone controls, effects, etc.

Perhaps semantics. Enjoy the music!
My understanding also. The goal from the very beginning of guitar or other instrument electronic amplification was a faithful as possible reproduction of initial sound at higher volume; distortion was considered a flaw. Only much later with cultural change was distortion sought after. Guitarists like Wes Montgomery long ago sought ways to escape the tube amp world of iffy reliability and all that embarrassment and he himself jumped ship to solid state as soon as he saw the opportunity.
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  #36  
Old 11-29-2018, 05:06 PM
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No! Guitar amps have never been hi-fi and guitar players have always loved them for that. The sound is created in the amp (plus cab and speaker) just as much as the guitar. It's really all one big instrument.

It's this analogue signal-processing magic which tube amp simulators try to recreate in 0's and 1's. It's not as easy as the marketing blurb often makes out.
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  #37  
Old 11-29-2018, 06:31 PM
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Getting back to the OP .While I am still not really convinced that any solid state amp with digital tube emulation is really going to sound and feel like a tube amp.... I am not so jaded that I cannot see the appeal that SS has for some. I am surprised no one has mentioned Quilter Amps, I think if I was going to look seriously into solid state, it would be high on the list of candidates

https://www.quilterlabs.com/index.php/productpage/micropro-mach-2-12-inch-hd
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  #38  
Old 11-29-2018, 06:46 PM
Tahitijack Tahitijack is offline
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I'd like to see a shoot out review of these amps and the Fender Mustang line. Or just a the Mustang III vs Katana 100 through a single 12".
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  #39  
Old 11-30-2018, 07:52 AM
GHS GHS is offline
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
I agree the Milkman is the more desirable sound (for me) but as far as the price ? for a boutique style USA made amp, is actually pretty competitive..
Now obviously everyone's realistic budgets can be very different,,,, but I do not think "for home use" makes any difference... people buy $1500 + guitars "for home use" also, or spend that and more for home TV or Home Theater. It is a matter of personal priorities not location or use.
Yeah, probably a poor choice of words for the amp. I have a D-28, 000-15, Takamine EF-340tt, Yairi DY-71, and whole bunch more that add up to a lot more than that amp. Guess I'm just not that into electric...yet!!! My town is the home of Fuchs Amps.( check them out on line). They have a great following among rockers here. Their prices start right around 1500 to about 5K too. But some folks dont really like the sound..bit too "harsh". But they do sell quite a few. So if you look at it that way Milkman is not too bad.
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  #40  
Old 11-30-2018, 04:00 PM
maxtheaxe maxtheaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Getting back to the OP .While I am still not really convinced that any solid state amp with digital tube emulation is really going to sound and feel like a tube amp....
I hear you...the thing that seems to have made the difference as far as the "feel" of my SS/Modeling set-up is the addition of a compressor (in this case a Boss CS-3) in front of it all...really puts the 'bloom' into the tone of these models that is missing from the straight digital/SS signal, and I get the extreme versatility of having the choice of about a dozen distinct amp flavors with the flip of a switch. Fender cleans to Marshall crunch to Class A jangle...and they are all quite convincing.
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  #41  
Old 11-30-2018, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by maxtheaxe View Post
I hear you...the thing that seems to have made the difference as far as the "feel" of my SS/Modeling set-up is the addition of a compressor (in this case a Boss CS-3) in front of it all...really puts the 'bloom' into the tone of these models that is missing from the straight digital/SS signal, and I get the extreme versatility of having the choice of about a dozen distinct amp flavors with the flip of a switch. Fender cleans to Marshall crunch to Class A jangle...and they are all quite convincing.
Hey if it works for you that is all that really matters. Actually I do have an SS Orange Crush 20 RT practice amp, that I got specifically for it's HeadPhone out for when I don't want to disturb the household. but it is pretty basic and only has a DSP reverb

But there is just "something" about my Supro Titan that is hard to express in words. Perhaps for me part of that "something" is in fact the simplicity and not having of gobs of knobs and selections , 1 channel , Volume, Bass, Treble, analog tube driven Reverb and Tremolo .

I was going to sell it to fund a Port City Pearl 50, but now I may keep it and look into the Pearl when I can afford it without selling the Supro
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  #42  
Old 11-30-2018, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by maxtheaxe View Post
I hear you...the thing that seems to have made the difference as far as the "feel" of my SS/Modeling set-up is the addition of a compressor (in this case a Boss CS-3) in front of it all...really puts the 'bloom' into the tone of these models that is missing from the straight digital/SS signal, and I get the extreme versatility of having the choice of about a dozen distinct amp flavors with the flip of a switch. Fender cleans to Marshall crunch to Class A jangle...and they are all quite convincing.
This is what I learned with modeling. After an extended run playing lead with a band through a 50 watt, two 6L6 valve Gibson amp I realized that I was pushing into a power amp that compressed heavily when driven and created the lead sound that I loved. I discovered that I could reproduce that playing feel with a good compressor out in front of a quieter rig and I moved that into my modeling rigs. Of course, I'm on the fence, living between tubes and modelers.

Bob
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  #43  
Old 11-30-2018, 09:28 PM
Paleolith54 Paleolith54 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
This is what I learned with modeling. After an extended run playing lead with a band through a 50 watt, two 6L6 valve Gibson amp I realized that I was pushing into a power amp that compressed heavily when driven and created the lead sound that I loved. I discovered that I could reproduce that playing feel with a good compressor out in front of a quieter rig and I moved that into my modeling rigs. Of course, I'm on the fence, living between tubes and modelers.

Bob
I think Adrien Belew used a compressor (in front of tube amps) for the same reason.
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  #44  
Old 12-01-2018, 12:43 AM
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Just sold my Katana 50 today. Fender Champion 20 and 40 pushed it out. The Champions absolutely need a speaker upgrade tho. I've had several classic tube amps over the years but being able to get a sound at a volume level that works is easier with a modeling amp.
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  #45  
Old 12-01-2018, 06:46 AM
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Just sold my Katana 50 today. Fender Champion 20 and 40 pushed it out. The Champions absolutely need a speaker upgrade tho. I've had several classic tube amps over the years but being able to get a sound at a volume level that works is easier with a modeling amp.
Interesting. I struggled between the Katana 50 and the Champion 40 and picked the Champion 40. You're right about needing a speaker upgrade...which speaker for the best sound is the now the challenge.

I'm playing the SS more than the tube amps now. SS amps have come a long way.
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