Pro-series Takamine, truss rod spins freely with no tension either way. Options?

[thechoochlyman]

This guitar came up as a "steal" on Craigslist recently, and being the first person to contact the seller, I was able to inspect and purchase it the same night it was listed.

The guitar had been kept in a wood-heated shop, and as such was dried out pretty badly. I noticed the neck had quite an inward bow to it, but I attributed that to the low humidity and went home with it.

Yesterday I put the guitar on the bench to restring, as it had been getting proper humidity for about two days at that point. I noticed it had .010 gauge Elixer polywebs on it. Once I started to attempt tightening the truss rod, I understood why.

The nut will turn freely in either direction with very little resistance to it. It's been suggested that I try having someone else put some pressure on the neck for me why I try turning it again, but I haven't been able to fully test that method yet.

I'm assuming the worst, and that it will need to have the fingerboard removed and a new truss rod installed. I'm willing to try fixing it myself depending on how much a professional shop will quote the work for. I've done quite a few easy to moderate repairs, and I'd be fine with spending a couple hundred dollars on the correct tools for the job if I think it will turn out well in the end, with enough help from the folks here. The good news is that I could part out the hardware and make all my money back if need be.

So, are there any little tricks I should look at first, or should I commence buying tools?

Model DMP751C CYS (domestic Japan only)

[mirwa]

PM sent.....

Steve

[thechoochlyman]

Thanks for the tips, Mirwa...

Here are the main questions I have:

• Should the fretboard binding be removed first, before the fretboard?
• Can the frets be left in place for this entire process?
• Is a heat gun too intense for this job, or is a household iron recommended?

[mirwa]

Yes,
Yes,
Iron

Steve

[thechoochlyman]

Thanks again, Steve! Would you care to recommend the right tools for the job? I know StewMac has about everything I'd need, but I'd prefer an experienced person like yourself to help make my shopping list.

All I have right now that could be of help are a couple of standard, thin putty knives that I've used in a bridge reset.

[dannyg1]

I’d suggest getting in touch with Takamine and asking them if they have any advice and/or possibly might do the work for you. It’s a long shot but if they might, that could save you a ton of work, pain and money.

[thechoochlyman]

I do have contact with one of Takamine's luthiers in the US. I originally asked him to quote the work, but he said that's not a service they provide. And because the guitar is out of warranty (and I'm not the original owner), getting it repaired on my own dime will be the only way to go. I'm sure I'll be contacting Takamine or my nearest dealer to order a new truss rod, though.

You don't need Takamine to do it. In fact, sometimes factories are not very good at certain repair work and retrofits. Their focus is building. For a point of reference, Bryan Kimsey charges $150 for installing an adjustable truss rod not including any fretwork.

Couple of other thoughts...

You haven't mentioned the actual relief measurement under tension. That's an important number.

How much have you tried turning the rod? If it's a 2-way rod there's a "dead zone" between where the rod adds relief or back bow. It can feel like the rod has no tension on it, because it doesn't really at that point. Have you made at least one revolution, maybe two, with no change in tension or relief?

[thechoochlyman]

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

You don't need Takamine to do it. In fact, sometimes factories are not very good at certain repair work and retrofits. Their focus is building. For a point of reference, Bryan Kimsey charges $150 for installing an adjustable truss rod not including any fretwork.

Couple of other thoughts...

You haven't mentioned the actual relief measurement under tension. That's an important number.

How much have you tried turning the rod? If it's a 2-way rod there's a "dead zone" between where the rod adds relief or back bow. It can feel like the rod has no tension on it, because it doesn't really at that point. Have you made at least one revolution, maybe two, with no change in tension or relief?

I'd never heard of Bryan Kimsey - seems like a great guy. I may contact him for a quote.

I do not have have the actual relief measurement under tension. Suffice it to say that I've done many setups just by eyeballing the neck relief, and the inward bow is rather severe with only .010 gauge strings. I was going to install my normal EXP16s, but I'd be afraid to by how it looks.

I spun the nut 6-12 full tuns in each direction with no change in the neck relief whatsoever. Never felt like anything was grabbing. For what it's worth, the Takamine luthier I spoke to told me it sounded like the rod was cracked.

[thechoochlyman]

Something else I'm considering:

Because I'm removing the binding prior to the fretboard, should I remove the 1st and maybe 12th fret and drill some small locating holes to pin it with upon re-gluing?

Originally Posted by thechoochlyman

I spun the nut 6-12 full tuns in each direction with no change in the neck relief whatsoever. Never felt like anything was grabbing. For what it's worth, the Takamine luthier I spoke to told me it sounded like the rod was cracked.

That's pretty definitive. Sometimes people just turn the rod a little and pronounce it "broken", but seems like you have the real deal.

Originally Posted by thechoochlyman

Because I'm removing the binding prior to the fretboard, should I remove the 1st and maybe 12th fret and drill some small locating holes to pin it with upon re-gluing?

I believe John Arnold does something very similar. You might check with him

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by thechoochlyman

Thanks again, Steve! Would you care to recommend the right tools for the job? I know StewMac has about everything I'd need, but I'd prefer an experienced person like yourself to help make my shopping list.

All I have right now that could be of help are a couple of standard, thin putty knives that I've used in a bridge reset.

Standard pallet knife and an iron will do the job for you.

You dont want to buy the specialized tools, they are extremely costly, example I would use a thermostatically controlled heat blanket for removing the fretboard, at around 350usd its already more than the guitar is worth.

Steve

[thechoochlyman]

No offense taken, but give the model number a search and see what they're selling for... And where they all ship from.

[mirwa]

All good, the heat blanket is the start of the list, you will need three pallet knifes, stewmac sell them for about 23 bucks each, I get mine from china 6 for 2 dollars or something like that.

You will need a heat gun to soften the binding so it can be peeled away, then either new binding or re-attach that binding at completion of job

You will need a new truss rod

Some chisels may be required to open to suit new truss rod.

You will need some shaped cauls and clamps to re-attach the board or some large bands of elastic to wrap the neck to hold the board down whilst being glued.

You will need some small spray gear, after you put the board back on, you will need to spray some clear lacquer over the join and wet sand it

You will at the least need to do a fret level and setup so thats fret levelling cauls, crowning tools, and files.

Thats of the top of my head, you may also need to refret the neck

Steve

[thechoochlyman]

Originally Posted by mirwa

All good, the heat blanket is the start of the list, you will need three pallet knifes, stewmac sell them for about 23 bucks each, I get mine from china 6 for 2 dollars or something like that.

You will need a heat gun to soften the binding so it can be peeled away, then either new binding or re-attach that binding at completion of job

You will need a new truss rod

Some chisels may be required to open to suit new truss rod.

You will need some shaped cauls and clamps to re-attach the board or some large bands of elastic to wrap the neck to hold the board down whilst being glued.

You will need some small spray gear, after you put the board back on, you will need to spray some clear lacquer over the join and wet sand it

You will at the least need to do a fret level and setup so thats fret levelling cauls, crowning tools, and files.

Thats of the top of my head, you may also need to refret the neck

Steve

Hey Steve, thanks for the info.

Pallet knives - I'll probably get the China ones.
Heat Gun - have one
Truss Rod - gonna order from Tak
Chisels - will order if required
Cauls/Clamps - Was gonna go with a few of these. How do you recommend securing the fretboard over the guitar's top?
Spray Gear - maybe... I'll probably drop-fill any bad areas with superglue and sand out the rest lightly. If I do this repair it'll probably just be a player/ongoing project for me.
Fret level - no problemo. Doubt I'll need to refret, but I'll keep that in mind. I'd still like to pull two frets out and drill some locating pin holes. Otherwise I don't know how to get it in the right place without the binding already on it.

And how would I go about re-gluing the binding over the top? Can't get tape over it there. Do I need a special knife for removal, or will the regular pallet knife work?

EDIT: Looks like Takamine is not selling the truss rod. I'll have to use one from another source.