Torrefied/baked tops and hide glue worth it?

[Arlington]

Looking at some Gibson J-45's, I was curious about the experience and opinions of people of torrefied (backed, VTS, etc) tops in combination with hide glue in construction.

I understand that hide glue is harder and less forgiving to work with, thus requires more attention and time (?) as well as dries a bit stiffer than modern wood glue, but it there a difference in sound? Are hide glue instruments more sensitive to heat and/or humidity as well?

Each manufacturer calls the torrefication process something slightly different (baked, VTS in the case of Martin, etc). I guess it "opens" the guitar much more from start?

I know the appreciation of tone is an individual thing and can only be experienced in person, but I would be curious to hear from users/owners of guitars with torrefied/baked/VTS tops and hide glue constructions about your experiences. Worth the upcharge?

Best,

P.

[Russ C]

Torrefied tops make a very audible difference.
Hide glue - much less so, if at all.

[stephenT]

I reglued my Pono 12 parlor's bridge w/ hide glue (where there was some sort of aliphatic resin) I can report there was a small but noticeable improvement in sound.

"Worth it" is up to you. I can see value in the bridge and neck being glued w/ hide glue,... not sure there's value in assembling the entire guitar using hide glue But since i have no direct experience,.. like many folks might, I'm just guessing.

[brencat]

Like always, it’s the whole package together and whether YOU like the tone and feel of the instrument. I’ve got two 1st-gen Authentics that pre-date torrefaction but are made with hide glue, a Santa Cruz D/PW made with hide glue, and an Aged Tone Bourgeois with a torrefied Adi top, braces, and bridge plate. All 4 guitars sound awesome, but the Authentics and the D/PW have something extra in the feel — almost like the flex when you lightly bounce on a trampoline or draw back on a compound bow. And the only thing different about these 3 is the hide glue construction. So I can’t say for sure, but I think it does make a difference.

The jury is still out with me on torrefaction. It seems to be a game changer on a builder like Bourgeois, but case by case on Martin and Gibson, maybe because they don’t hand voice their tops like the boutiques.

That’s all I have.

[s2y]

I'm not sure about hide glue.

I have 3 acoustics that have torrified tops. Excellent guitars, although I don't have the luxury of comparing those guitars to non-torrified builds by the same luthier.

[zmf]

Originally Posted by Arlington

Worth the upcharge?

If it isn't, you'll lie that it is.

Prine is gone. Wonder if he played hide glue guitars?

[jklotz]

I do think both can make a difference, but there are so many other factors. I wouln't let those elements alone be the only deciding factor on if I buy a guitar or not.

[6L6]

I would say it’s the sum of the parts that all contribute to the sound.

I currently own a pair of ‘39 D-18A’s and they both sound incredible. SO... I’m a fan of hide glue and am happy to pay the upcharge to have it.

[Kh1967]

As many have stated, it is the sum of the parts. I have two guitars with hide glue; one has a torrefied top and the other does not. To my ear, both sound great.

But, I also have another guitar that is “plain jane” (not hide glue, no torrefied) and it is equal in tone to the above. It is no less of a guitar than the others.

[RP]

Note to self: Never use the term "worth it" in a thread title. Doing so lends itself to the answer, "It depends" because worth is inherently subjective depending on what a buyer is willing to spend...

[00045]

Everything in a guitar makes a difference.

I think it is hard to say if hide glue itself makes a big difference. But working with hide glue the glue joints need to be very precise and I think there is a difference.
The baked tops for sure makes a difference in tone, but its up to you and the specific guitar if you like it.
"Worth it?", only you can answer that.
I love my Authentic Martin and my two Gibson limited edition which are build like the Authentic series, all hide glue construction. None of them have baked tops, but I don't miss a thing.
I played a few Stratocasters with baked necks, they are not my thing.

[rokdog49]

As I recall, Eastman Guitars upcharge is “reasonable” for their torrified tops.
I might pay more for one of those.

[redir]

I am building my 4th torrified top guitar right now and the expert luthiers that I consulted with all recommended using fish glue for the bracing. Torrified tops are very hydrophobic. While HHG is indeed a water base glue it's set time is much shorter then Fish glue. So the idea is that the slow setting water based fish glue clamped in place for 24 hours makes a better bond.

So if you think about it that way then getting the guitar made with the other alternative which is probably Titebond or some other branded AR glue has some merit to it.

There are plenty of T-Top guitars out there made with HHG glue too though. But now you have a good science based excuse to save some money

[Arlington]

Originally Posted by RP

Note to self: Never use the term "worth it" in a thread title. Doing so lends itself to the answer, "It depends" because worth is inherently subjective depending on what a buyer is willing to spend...

You have a point here... :-)

[Quickstep192]

I’m curious... what is the average up charge for hide glue?