When is a Martin not a Martin; Gibson not a Gibson etc

[Wellington]

Something I've often thought about is my prejudices towards certain models of guitars under certain iconic brands.
Martin for instance, sometimes I feel like their flagship legendary models are so iconic that it takes away from their Mexican made guitars. Though I'm anxious to play a D10e for a down the road potential purchase of a guitar in that price range, I like the specs of it, that it's all solid etc, has the Martin look . . . but theres something about it not being made in Nazareth that makes me look at it as a knockoff; not a genuine Martin, potentially still a decent guitar, but not the 'real thing.' I especially feel this way about the HPL Martins, again, it's not that I think these are crappy guitars per se, just not 'genuine,' almost like the Epiphone versions of Gibson guitars.

I can't say I feel as strongly towards Gibson in that sense as I think the Gibsons with the Gibson name are still made in Bozeman, even their G series.

The weird thing is I don't feel the prejudice with guitars like Yamaha, mine is made in China and I don't for a second look at it like it's not a legit Yamaha because it's not made in Japan or something.

Does anyone else think like this? If one day I ended up with something like a D10e I might very well enjoy the guitar etc, but I am pretty sure I would always feel like I didn't have the 'real thing'. That's not necessarily a bad thing, I'm not actually very bent on brands, but the thought would be there.

[L20A]

For me, this idea started when Guild started selling Chinese made guitars.
While these are very good guitars, I don't like to see Guild on the headstock.

I feel the same with the other American guitar makers.
If it is made outside of America, it should have a different name on it.
I like the way Martin first did it with Sigma and Shenandoah.

This is my opinion and yours may very.

[jpd]

"If one day I ended up with something like a D10e I might very well enjoy the guitar etc, but I am pretty sure I would always feel like I didn't have the 'real thing'. That's not necessarily a bad thing, I'm not actually very bent on brands, but the thought would be there."


I follow your sentiment. I have copies of iconic builds...but the builds themselves have my respect and joy. Never know when an "off brand" will grab you by the ears

[Birchtop]

That is weird, as I am the same way with Yamaha as well. Although they going to Rosewood to Walnut for fretboards and bridges on some of there models, turns me off.

First, no offense to anyone and their guitars. But when it comes to Martins or Gibsons, I m pretty picky. A Martin or Gibson needs to be made in the USA for me.

A Martin is a Martin for me as long as it’s on par with their 18 Series and up models.

Most Gibsons work for me as long as it sticks with Traditional woods, but NO Epiphones.

Now when it comes Fender Strats/Teles, I prefer USA made models, but I do have some of their MIM line in the mix. Some of which have even been exceptional. Weird, right?

[jpricewood]

Originally Posted by Birchtop

That is weird, as I am the same way with Yamaha as well. Although they going to Rosewood to Walnut for fretboards and bridges on some of there models, turns me off.

First, no offense to anyone and their guitars. But when it comes to Martins or Gibsons, I m pretty picky. A Martin or Gibson needs to be made in the USA for me.

A Martin is a Martin for me as long as it’s on par with their 18 Series and up models.

Most Gibsons work for me as long as it sticks with Traditional woods, but NO Epiphones.

Now when it comes Fender Strats/Teles, I prefer USA made models, but I do have some of their MIM line in the mix. Some of which have even been exceptional. Weird, right?

I agree with most of this, but you don’t have any love for the 15-series?

[Dru Edwards]

Gibson made the Songmaker model in Newfoundland, Canada when they acquired Garrison Guitars over 10 years ago. Unfortunately, everything I read about that endeavor (and the couple of guitars I played) were that the guitars didn't sound as good as other Gibsons. The sad part is that Gibson then shut down the plant. I'm glad I have a Garrison all solid wood made in that plant.

So, when is a Gibson not a Gibson? Perhaps those guitars made in Canada.

[Birchtop]

Originally Posted by jpricewood

I agree with most of this, but you don’t have any love for the 15-series?

There you go, you have to throw a wrench into the one possible exception..

[hubcapsc]

Never know when an "off brand" will grab you by the ears

I played both my cf-100 and my Country Western some this morning.
Then I pulled out my $100 197X guitar whose goodness I was crowing
about a month or so ago after I got it back from the neck reset...
Holy cow does it ever play nice and have lots of volume - way more
than the cf-100...



It looks real nice too ... the binding up and down the neck and on the
headstock and the top... the little squares of inlay in the neck...

-Mike

[zmf]

Originally Posted by d.loseth

Martin for instance, sometimes I feel like their flagship legendary models are so iconic ......

It's simple. Just keep repeating this mantra.

Anything with an "18" or higher in the model name is a Martin.

(Or so I hear tell.)

[dcmey]

To each their own. I feel that if the company puts its name on it then it's that brand. The way I look at it they are trying to build a good guitar for people to learn on and the hope is that you like the brand and upgrade when you can afford it.

[bufflehead]

Questions of authenticity are fascinating, and often tell us more about ourselves than the objects being authenticated.

Two of my Martin guitars were built in Nazareth, Pennsylvania, but the other, a Little Martin LXK2, was built in Navajoa, Mexico, in the state of Sonora. It features a Stratabond neck (laminated birch) with a Richlite fingerboard, and HPL top, back and sides. I purchased it for kayak camping, replacing a Washburn Rover that had spent dozens of weeks strapped to the top of my expedition kayak in a dry bag.

The LXK2 has such better tone than the Rover ever had, there's not even really a comparison to make. Indeed, it's so good that I keep the guitar in my writing studio when it's not needed for travel. Nice to have a guitar I don't need to worry about humidity, or the lack thereof.

Is the LXK2 less a Martin guitar than my 000-15m? You could argue that the 000 has more of the Martin sound than the LXK2, but then you'd have to argue that my dreadnought has more of the Martin sound than 000. Does that make the 000 less of a Martin than the dread?

No, those who would argue that the LXK2 is less of a Martin would be basing their arguments solely on its heritage. How can it be a Martin if it's Mexican?

That's an argument I must reject. The LXK2 is an authentic Martin because it was built by employees of CF Martin & Co, established in 1833, in a Martin factory.

[100LL]

No expert here but it seems like both Martin and Taylor do their budget line quite responsibly and do it right. Heck, the Taylor Mexico factory is basically on the other side of town . Those guys could work at their MX operation in the morning, have lunch and do the afternoon at HQ.

I looked into a local 000-18 Martin Shenandoah a few months ago, and asked over at UMGF if it was a good idea. Learned it was overpriced and that there are a lot of negative feelings for the Shenandoah. the Road series is better thought of.

Now Breedlove, well that’s a different story. they went full tilt china

[ataylor]

A Martin or a Gibson isn’t a Martin or a Gibson if it’s a counterfeit. Otherwise, if it’s made by those companies and has their name on it, it’s one of their guitars.

I see no reason why these larger guitar companies shouldn’t offer a range of guitars at varying price points and levels of craftsmanship, nor do I see why we should discount a company’s lower-priced models as being “knockoff” guitars.

When I was starting out as a beginner in high school and college, a Taylor guitar was a holy grail of sorts to me — but as a student, even a 300 series guitar was out of reach. It was around this time that Taylor came out with their 100 and 200 series models. I continued to save and was able to buy a 210. I could have stretched a little to get the 310 and played both models, but preferred the 210. Yes, this guitar was made in the USA at the time, but it still represented a slightly more sparsely-appointed model for those looking to own a Taylor at a lower price.

I also own a Mexican-made Fender — the venerable Baja Telecaster. When I bought this guitar, it was less about price point and more the fact that I simply preferred the tone, feel, look, and value of the Baja. I don’t consider it any less of a Fender guitar than standard or custom shop equivalents made in California.

Even expensive, flagship guitars will get dismissed by some as being sub-par compared to a premium variant from the same brand, a small-shop equivalent, or a vintage specimen. The fact of the matter is that there are wonderful guitars at every price point and level of trim and craftsmanship for a wide range of playing styles and aesthetic tastes.

With so many choices and so many resources, and with quality and consistency being accessible at lower prices than ever before, it’s an exciting time to play guitar, regardless of where it was made or what the price tag was.

[stephenT]

If it has "Martin" on the headstock and is truly made by Martin and not a forgery,..

IT IS A MARTIN. Let me add a period to that sentence..

How we "feel" about this or that guitar, where it was made,.. is immaterial, irrelevant and etc.

[gibpicker]

Nothing beats the real thing if you can afford it.