The versatility of mandolin

[pjheff]

The mandolin is a great instrument but not an ideal counterpart to most vocal accompaniment. That’s why the octave mandolin was invented!

[M19]

Originally Posted by pjheff

The mandolin is a great instrument but not an ideal counterpart to most vocal accompaniment. That’s why the octave mandolin was invented!

Gonna get me one of those too!

[phydaux]

Originally Posted by pjheff

The mandolin is a great instrument but not an ideal counterpart to most vocal accompaniment. That’s why the octave mandolin was invented!

Couldn't you say the same thing about the ukulele? And yet people accompany themselves singing with a ukulele all the time.

[pjheff]

Originally Posted by phydaux

Couldn't you say the same thing about the ukulele? And yet people accompany themselves singing with a ukulele all the time.

In my opinion, no. A ukulele, though small like the mandolin, is tuned to a register that does not compete with most human singing voices.

[posternutbag]

I am principally a mandolinist, and so I am biased towards the instrument. What I will say is that while you can accompany yourself solo with mandolin, it is not the best tool for the job. Sam Bush is great at solo voice and mandolin:



But even here, the mandolin barely supports the vocal. I think there are two reasons why the mandolin is not the best choice for solo accompaniment.

1. Polyphony. The mandolin has at most 4 notes available, and often only 3. Contrast this with a guitar that has 6 notes (even if you only strum 5 or even 4 strings, you almost always have at least one more string, and therefore one more note, than the mandolin).

2. Resonance. This is, IMO, the biggest reason the mandolin is not the best choice for solo accompaniment, and it’s where the ukulele comes into its own, despite also only having 4 strings. The notes ring out longer and richer on a flattop guitar or an ukulele. The arch top of a mandolin and it’s tone bar construction makes it a less resonant instrument. The notes decay quickly, leaving little to support your voice. There is also the issue of tuning. Again, to contrast it with the ukulele, the mandolin uses a lot more closed shape chords that decay quickly, where the ukulele has more easy chords with open strings. The acoustic guitar, of course, has both resonance built into its body shape and has easy ways to use chords with open strings. As another example, you don’t see many people using an electric guitar for solo accompaniment (although it has absolutely been used for this task).

Now, everything has an exception. Sam Bush, Chris Thile, Sarah Jarosz, all manage to sing and accompany themselves solo on mandolin, so again, it’s not impossible. I just don’t think it is the best choice, in the same way I probably wouldn’t choose a resonator banjo or an arch top guitar to accompany my vocals, because a flattop guitar or an open back banjo is just a slightly easier choice.

[Gibcaster000]

Oh man, posternutbag beat me to sharing that Girl From the North Country video. But here's another great Sam Bush example. Short answer to your question is absolutely yes. It just takes a little extra mojo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEne36YxyKI

[keith.rogers]

Interesting thread. I agree that it is that lack of sustain, principally, that makes it a harder instrument to use for solo vocal accompaniment. Some mandolins may be better choices for that sort of thing, even the flat-top models, but possibly most oval hole models will have a deeper "voice" that fills things out a bit more. (Maybe not surprising that some folks prefer an octave mandolin for that task, like Sarah Jarosz, but then her voice might fit better against the lower register, too.)

And, if you want "sustain" on [most] mandolins, you're basically left with tremolo, so between probably strumming twice as much to begin with, you start to have a real cardio workout just playing the accompaniment, and your singing might suffer. (I know mine does when I've tried it!)

Still, it's worth the effort if you've got some facility on the instrument and can sing. You might show up for a gig and your guitar-playing partner is late .

[Br1ck]

Mandolin not suited for singing is hogwash. If you mindlessly strum like many do on guitar, it won't sound so good. It doesn't sound so good on guitar either. But I sing and play mandolin all the time, and to me it is superior to a uke. YMMV. Not suited to and not able to are two different things. I play old time ballads , blugrass standards, Prince's Little Red Corvette, and Lennon's Across the Universe among others. You do have to forget the guitar part and create something new. Fills and breaks are essential. Create is the word.

[keith.rogers]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

Mandolin not suited for singing is hogwash. .....

Not saying it's not suited, I'm just saying it's a lot of work. And, it doesn't hurt to have a voice and some skill on the mandolin. I will argue that it's more work if you're coming at it from a guitar-strumming background.

Here's someone that can pull it off.

[columbia]

Originally Posted by phydaux

Part of me really wants to focus on mandolin and make it my primary instrument. But I’m concerned about the versatility of the instrument. Is this something that I can take with me to a campfire and use to play chords while we all sing Wagon Wheel?

In my experience in that type of situation it's much more likely for there to be another person with a guitar. If I was the only one with an instrument I'd choose a guitar; if there's another guitar player, mandolin is great.

[Br1ck]

Originally Posted by keith.rogers

Not saying it's not suited, I'm just saying it's a lot of work. And, it doesn't hurt to have a voice and some skill on the mandolin. I will argue that it's more work if you're coming at it from a guitar-strumming background.

Here's someone that can pull it off.

I'll give you that. You have to use arppegios and add fills while maintaining the chord flavor while you sing. It is work, but it's rewarding work.

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by packmule

I'm sure you could find a way to make it work, or there's always the mandola, which a lot of folks seem to gravitate towards to accompany their singing - the mandola's CGDA tuning works well with vocals.

Yeah I agree there are many that will say "the mandolin doesn't work for vocals but mandola is great." I don't really understand this.

I play mandolin, violin, mandola, viola, octave mandolin, octave violin, mandocello and octave viola (plus a few guitars). Mandolin and mandola share 3 of 4 courses identically - G, D, and A. The notes on these strings are exactly the same on these two instruments! The music for mandola (and viola) is written in the alto clef (vs treble clef for mandolin/violin (and guitar....)). So this demonstrates the difference in range between the instruments. But if you're playing chords to accompany a singer the range doesn't matter - you're just voicing the chords differently on a mandola vs a mandolin. And again, odds are 3 of the 4 notes you're playing when playing a chord are going to be exactly the same frequency - not an octave or even a 5th apart; they are the same.

One difference between a mandolin and mandola is the body size and depth. Most mandolins aren't known for sustain (I own some exceptions) but the greater air volume of the 'dola adds to the sustain, timbre and presence.

All that said, I consider my 10 string mandola to be my most versatile instrument due to medium size (airplane carry on), wider range (C-G-D-A-E), guitar width fretboard (not found on most 'dolas) so it can be flat or fingerpicked, deep sweet tone, loads of sustain and great volume.

[ProfChris]

I perform solo quite a lot with soprano ukulele, and audiences seem to think it works quite well for that.

Used like this, a ukulele does a lot of work as a percussion instrument, using a lot of what might be called chop chords on mandolin (ukulele players often refer to this 'chunking'). I've tried that technique on mandolin, and the reasons I don't think it works are:

1. Mandolins ring out 7 semitones or more above a soprano uke (and 5 below, but the high notes are what really hit the ear). So that kind of strumming sounds very shrill if you do a lot of it.

2. Ukulele tunings gets the strings at closer intervals to each other, producing a thicker-sounding chop/chunk than a mandolin. This seems to support the voice better.

3. The ukulele's chop/chunk is more muted (fewer overtones) than the mandolin, which lets the voice stand out more clearly.

If I look at the mandolin players who work solo voice and mandolin successfully, they all limit their use of chop chords, and indeed of chords generally, and also they accompany themselves much more with arpeggios and runs. The result is great, but requires very different skills from ukulele chord accompaniment (probably much higher skills, but I'm not a good mandolin player so can't comment from experience).

I think the OP has his answer - yes it can be done successfully, but it requires a different technique from guitar (or uke). Indeed, playing a guitar like a uke (or vice versa) usually sounds dull, or bad, or both.

[Brent Hutto]

We saw Tim O'Brien in a solo gig years ago and I'm almost positive he did not use a mandolin to accompany his singing at all. I think at some point he might have done a solo mandolin instrumental but when he sang he used a guitar or one of those bouzouki/octave mandolin type instruments.

Pretty sure he actually has the chops to use any instrument he likes but mandolin isn't his first or even second choice for accompanying solo voice.

OTOH, on Nashville Bluegrass Band gigs Mike Compton would sometimes do an extended solo vocal/solo mandolin number that was really something. But he was alternating mandolin licks with vocal phrases in a very sparse style that was almost like a hybrid of capella singing combined with a bluesy instrumental. It didn't sound to me like what I'd call straight "accompaniment" of his voice.

[stevo58]

I play mandolin, guitar, and tenor banjo. I regard any instrument tuned in fifths as basically the same. Tenor banjo was a big help for my mandolin playing. It’s tuned a fifth lower, but that A string on the tenor is really piercing, and I learned to lay off of it and play a lot of two and three note chords. Laying off that high string really helps. It’s there when I want it, but it’s not a constant penetrating note. This is a big help when singing (imho).

Steven